The Donald J. Trump Presidency

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    chrondog
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by chrondog on Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:20 pm

    There is no more "free speech". There is no more "respecting decorum". There is no more "peaceful resistance". Anything and everything to stop right wingers from having a forum to peddle their bullshit.

    These motherfuckers don't deserve an inch.
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by chrondog on Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:18 pm

    No matter what action anyone takes on the left it will be branded as "counterproductive" by the media and internet trolls. This is the sickness in the way public discourse treats progressive action. Every obstructionist, trolling, offensive, and borderline illegal behavior by right wingers is "savvy", "politically expedient", or "all part of the plan". All left wing action is "disorganized", "goalless", and "plays right into their hands". Guess what? Pretty much all political action is emotional, disorganized, and often goalless. It's hard to organize people and make their POVs homogenous!

    Fuck it. There is no means of gauging if an action was "effective" or not within 15 minutes of it happening. We can't say that people are watching this at home, judging, waiting to vote Republican again. The current political discourse is 100% headline trolling and the left is winning headlines by being in the streets, being at airports, punching Nazis, and fucking shit up. DEFINE OUR SIDE. Stand against something. You don't need to commit violence or support it. I won't be violent or high five people that do. But I will understand them and understand that their tactics can be effective. And I hope our issues win.

    I have always been a massive free speech person and don't intrinsically see the value is stopping someone like Milo from speaking on a campus. If I were organizing I might have done much the opposite--ignoring the fuck out of his talk and hosting a more inclusive, parallel talk at the same time. But I can't deny the times we live in and the feelings of real people. "HATE SPEECH IS FREE SPEECH" is such an absolutely twisted interpretation of what free speech means. "Free speech" is intended to be political speech against institutions. This is about existential threats veiled as ideology. This shit fucking scares people. People at Berkeley all know people who are undocumented and have probably heard stories of someone who is already in jeopardy of being separated from their family. Milo has openly bragged about calling ICE on undocumented immigrants. He's a complete shithead. He is on team Trump, even if he would try to distance himself from any particular movement because all he really cares about is his own brand and profitability. Any victory against team Trump I will support. Any inch we can take back against ANYONE who would ever let Donald Trump run this country should be fought for. They're gonna shred our laws and bend the Constitution--our only recourse is to pull them back in our direction until the men with riot shields stop us.

    Feeling so radical today mang
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by chrondog on Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:28 pm

    The new mayor of Berkeley, a 32 year old Latino man:

    “Destruction and violence are contrary to progressive values and have no place in our community,” his statement said. “I support those who peacefully come together in pursuit of a just and inclusive country that stands united with our immigrant population and the many others who are being targeted in this national political climate. Unfortunately, last night, a small minority of the protesters who had assembled in opposition to a speaking engagement featuring a prominent white nationalist engaged in violence and property damage. They also provided the ultra-nationalist far right exactly the images they want to use to try to discredit the vast majority of peaceful protesters in Berkeley and across America who are deeply concerned about where our country is heading.”

    Because the ultra-nationalist far right hasn't already discredited anyone they don't agree with? hmmmm....

    Right wing ideologues don't need anything to be true or any facts to get incensed by a Twitter meme that shows a flag on fire and says "BERKELEY HATES FREE SPEECH".

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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by chrondog on Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:32 pm

    A comment from a Bay Area resident on Berkeleyside.com today:

    Watching things unfold in Berkeley last night left me feeling the most terrified and despondent I've been since Trump got elected. I watched fellow progressives pat themselves on the back for what may prove a Pyrrhic victory of historic proportions. By geographically and philosophically positioning protests in opposition to the remarks of an individual provocateur, Berkeley self-sabotaged a key opportunity to refute an appalling ideology as a whole--rather than just a single articulation of that ideology. The left will be paying for the outcome of this wholly justified, but poorly planned protest for a very long time to come. We need to protest, but we need to protest more intelligently and strategically.

    I am passionate about resisting a slide into fascism and I understand why many believe it necessary to do so by violent means. But we must understand that to violently resist or overthrow the American government would be to attempt to salvage our democracy by destroying it first. This is not likely to end well. It is true that the majority of Americans did not support Trump and that a growing proportion disapprove of him. But that doesn't mean that anywhere near a majority are on board with West Coast ultra-liberal notions about violent resistance. If we are pushing for a violent uprising that the majority of Americans do not support, then we are also acting counter to democratic principles.

    It is also historically unwise to engage in a violent uprising if the other side has more guns. It is even less wise if the other side has the support of the military. Making physical might the ultimate key to American power would almost certainly put us on the losing side of any confrontation and accelerate a slide into dictatorship. Many a revolution has ended in a government that was equally if not more oppressive than the one overthrown.

    So what are we to do? How do we push back on this administration without pushing away the people we need to win back political power? All of this is easier said than done, and there is no magic bullet. But in all things we must be strategic. The right is playing three-dimensional chess while the left plays Taboo. People like Milo Yiannopoulos, Steve Bannon, and Kellyanne Conway are thinking three and four moves ahead. We must learn to do the same.

    When we plan protests, we need to position them for success. That means explicit calls for non-violence and avoiding locations, times of day, and protest formats that give cover to violent elements. This is why the Women's March chose the day after the inauguration--the organizers of the march understood the potential pitfalls of protesting on inauguration day and deftly avoided them. The UC Berkeley protest could have done the same by taking place earlier in the day and/or far away from the site of Milo's hateful talk. That way, even if the Black Bloc showed up to make mayhem, it would have been much clearer that the majority of protesters had nothing to do with that brand of violence. These agitators could maybe even have been stopped, had they not had a larger crowd to blend in with.

    If we want to stop Trump's agenda now, we must also go beyond coastal/urban protests to reach moderates and swing voters. They are the ones who we most need to be calling their representatives. (Calling Barbara Lee to reinforce the resistance she is already engaging in is not going to move the national policy needle.) Our arguments against Trump's policies need to be not just principled, but also emotionally intuitive and impactful. I deeply value arguments based in fact, logic, and rationality, but we have to understand the value of emotion and gut feeling in at least getting a foot in the door.

    We also need to enlist the help of mammoth corporations that have mostly sat on the sidelines of American politics. The idea of a Google, an Apple, or a Facebook inserting itself into the political process is not without risk. But we and our democracy face immediate threats that perhaps call for taking these risks, and neutrality/inaction can be political positions unto themselves. We should be pushing these companies to use their platforms to express the importance of equality and diversity in the delivery of the products and services they provide. Imagine the impact if Google, Apple, and Facebook put up matching screen overlays that said "Immigrants, LGBT people, and people of all religions and colors make our products and services possible. We support equality, diversity, and fairness for all. Click here to learn more and to let your representative known that you share these values."

    These suggestions may be idealistic and incomplete, but I believe strongly that they represent the direction we must go if we are to win back our democracy and build a better future.

    This is the kind of navel-gazing, privileged, narrow-minded "strategy" bullshit that assholes sitting on their couch are coming up with.

    Suggesting that Conway, Milo, and Bannon are "playing three-dimensional chess" and "thinking three or four moves ahead" is so wrongheaded and delusional it's hard to fathom. I can't abide these armchair liberals any fucking longer. These are charlatans and profiteers spewing sewage for personal and professional gain. Bannon in particuar is just a vile, sad racist who is not taking the sophisticated, circuitous route to getting his way, he's bulldozing over everything in his path. Three-dimensional chess? You flatter these dummies.

    And relying on corporations? Because money in politics always works out for liberals, right? Most of these tycoons that "rely on immigrants" would sell their goddamn children for a tax break.


    Last edited by chrondog on Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:08 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by undo on Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:17 pm

    three-dimensional chess
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by Ҩ on Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:38 pm

    chrondog wrote:Fuck it. There is no means of gauging if an action was "effective" or not within 15 minutes of it happening. We can't say that people are watching this at home, judging, waiting to vote Republican again. The current political discourse is 100% headline trolling and the left is winning headlines by being in the streets, being at airports, punching Nazis, and fucking shit up. DEFINE OUR SIDE. Stand against something. You don't need to commit violence or support it. I won't be violent or high five people that do. But I will understand them and understand that their tactics can be effective. And I hope our issues win.

    I have always been a massive free speech person and don't intrinsically see the value is stopping someone like Milo from speaking on a campus. If I were organizing I might have done much the opposite--ignoring the fuck out of his talk and hosting a more inclusive, parallel talk at the same time. But I can't deny the times we live in and the feelings of real people. "HATE SPEECH IS FREE SPEECH" is such an absolutely twisted interpretation of what free speech means. "Free speech" is intended to be political speech against institutions. This is about existential threats veiled as ideology. This shit fucking scares people. People at Berkeley all know people who are undocumented and have probably heard stories of someone who is already in jeopardy of being separated from their family. Milo has openly bragged about calling ICE on undocumented immigrants. He's a complete shithead. He is on team Trump, even if he would try to distance himself from any particular movement because all he really cares about is his own brand and profitability. Any victory against team Trump I will support. Any inch we can take back against ANYONE who would ever let Donald Trump run this country should be fought for. They're gonna shred our laws and bend the Constitution--our only recourse is to pull them back in our direction until the men with riot shields stop us.
    I'm in total agreement and the distinction you point to is really important. It's disconcerting that when I turned on CNN today they felt compelled to point out the irony of last night happening on a campus whose history is defined by the Free Speech movement of '65. And yeah, devoid of all historical context that feels like a contradiction of principles. Really what they are doing is comparing apples to white supremacist hate speech though. And they need to quit that shit.

    Not that I expect CNN (or any local, state, or federal politicians) to ever condone violent political resistance. But unless they are going to provide meaningful context instead of just flimsy qualifiers and meaningless principled stands about how resistance ought to be be, they should shut the fuck up.
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by Ҩ on Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:46 pm

    I sat down with an employment advisor today for the first time in my life. It was kind of a brutal experience. I really don't have anything to complain about because I am fortunate enough to be graduating from a really good university without taking any student loans.

    But the freeze on all federal hiring and the attack on public education is really disconcerting. For me, teaching, policy work, or legal advocacy seems like the most rewarding job because it is the closest anyone can get, without becoming a self-sufficient yeoman farmer in rural Oregon or an artist, to controlling their own labor. Senate Republicans must have been feeling the heat from their constituents about DeVos because McConnell moved the confirmation vote to tomorrow at... 6:30am.

    These people are monsters.

    Edit: And by tomorrow morning I mean Monday. Right now the Senate is predicted to be at 50-50 and Pence would provide the affirmative tie-breaker. If any of you have Republican Senators call them non-stop, please.


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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by Ҩ on Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:51 pm

    Also, if you want direct access to Trump's policy briefings, well here is his Twitter feed. Fuck it.

    I was going to post this as well to the SOMB thread because I think assholes like Fender need to face the consequences of their actions directly, but I really fucking hate the way the right politicizes human suffering and I don't want to become the thing I hate. Anyway, that really effected me this afternoon when I saw it. My favorite professor in college, who really taught me how to think critically, is from Iran. He lived through the revolution and was a labor activist and militant in the decade that followed. He had friends who were jailed and lost their lives and eventually had to permanently settle here in the States.

    It's been a while since I reached out to him. His Mom was still living in Iran but because of old age they were planning on having her move in with him full-time. I am too afraid to ask him what came of it because hearing any bad news would break my heart in a million pieces.
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by undo on Sat Feb 04, 2017 8:36 pm

    http://www.vanityfair.com/news/2017/02/trump-says-he-cut-wall-street-reform-because-his-friends-need-money

    On Friday, Donald Trump signed an executive order intended to roll back Dodd-Frank, the sprawling regulatory framework President Obama signed into law in 2010 to avoid another financial crisis, which was not entirely beloved on Wall Street. He also scrapped a fiduciary rule intended to protect retirees by forcing brokers and advisers to “work in the best interest of their clients.“ (This, too, was controversial.)

    According to its defenders, Dodd-Frank has been a modestly successful, if tortuous affair, requiring banks to bend over backwards to comply with regulations that protect investors and consumers from abusive practices and excessive risk. According to Trump, it was inconveniencing his friends:

    “There is nobody better to tell me about Dodd-Frank than [JP Morgan C.E.O.] Jamie [Dimon]. So he has to tell me about it, but we expect to be cutting a lot from Dodd-Frank because, frankly, I have so many people, friends of mine, that have nice businesses, they can’t borrow money,” Trump said Friday morning, shortly before signing the executive orders.
    “They just can’t get any money because the banks just won’t let them borrow because of the rules and regulations in Dodd-Frank.”

    And here’s how Gary Cohn, Goldman Sachs president turned White House National Economic Council Director made the case for getting rid of the fiduciary rule unveiled last spring:

    “We think it is a bad rule. It is a bad rule for consumers. This is like putting only healthy food on the menu, because unhealthy food tastes good but you still shouldn’t eat it because you might die younger.”

    hmmmm....
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by Nick on Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:16 pm

    I think the destruction that Betsy Devos will bring upon our educational system will be massive and possibly irreparable.
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by Nick on Tue Feb 07, 2017 3:17 pm

    At this point any Republican is a complete shit bag to me and I can only view them as my enemy.
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by Duff... on Tue Feb 07, 2017 6:14 pm

    Hard to argue with. Not sure there are moderate republicans anymore.
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by tjenz on Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:28 pm

    Nick wrote:At this point any Republican is a complete shit bag to me and I can only view them as my enemy.

    Listened to Limbaugh for a bit today. He said progressives and the enemy and the GOP needs to do everything they can to defeat the progressive movement. There is no compromise.


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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by Ҩ on Tue Feb 07, 2017 11:56 pm

    He has been saying that for at least a decade non-stop.
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by chrondog on Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:38 pm



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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by chrondog on Wed Feb 08, 2017 6:41 pm

    people love to point to the authoritarianism and the nationalism when calling Trump a "fascist", but the thing that really drives the point home to me is his statist corporatism. i don't think he'll spend more than 15 minutes during his presidency on any economic issue that doesn't directly benefit someone whose hand he's shaken at least twice.
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by ClosetOfExhaustion on Wed Feb 08, 2017 7:58 pm

    if i go back about 4-5 generations we've got roots in Beattyville.  I'm pretty happy the family mobilized R-U-N-n-O-F-T on out of there.  My family largely follows the path of current cable talking head du jour JD Vance's (author of Hillbilly Elegy) - appalachia to middletown, OH, to greener pastures, we were just a generation ahead of his.

    anyway, beattyville will never recover from the Purple Cow closing down in '14
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by chrondog on Wed Feb 08, 2017 9:12 pm

    this is the paradox of these "hillbilly" fools: local education sucks and they won't support reform that actually works, they won't move because they love being "country", they're on government assistance to support a lifestyle that has no economic basis while claiming that government hasn't helped them, and they say the government has neglected them while arguing against the very notion that government can positively influence people's lives.

    i posted this on Facebook two hours ago:
    As with most conservative political things, Betsy DeVos will ironically hurt many of the people who support her most. "School choice" (commonly referred to as "total bullshit") and state-run education will hurt red states that receive federal funds and have poor curricular standards. Those children will be less able to find jobs, will get on welfare, and then still complain about government assistance. This is what is known as the "right wing conspiracy". Conservatives ensure government doesn't work then complain that government doesn't work. Betsy DeVos is the embodiment of this ethos. Hopefully we can protect our liberal states and cities with robust standards and support for public education. Have a good day everyone!
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by Ҩ on Fri Feb 10, 2017 4:12 am


    Edgy analysis.
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by tjenz on Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:37 am

    Since the election, I have zero interest in watching Sam Bee, John Oliver, Bill Maher,....
    This shit isn't funny any more. It's real.


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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by chrondog on Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:54 pm

    this is such unbelievable bullshit: https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/jared-kushner-a-shadow-diplomat-pulls-the-strings-on-us-mexico-talks/2017/02/09/aed2cf80-ef0b-11e6-9973-c5efb7ccfb0d_story.html?tid=a_inl&utm_term=.cef00d7e3d15

    i have such a deep and seething loathing for everything that Jared and Ivanka do. these people have absolutely no moral courage whatsoever. i'm sure they rationalize their actions as doing good because they're "moderating" Donald, but they're actually complicit in his bullshit and playing with fire. when a 36 year old coddled rich shit is taking meetings with foreign governments with ZERO accountability, thats a recipe for ABSOLUTE FUCKING DISASTER. they are the Ukrainian guards in the towers at Auschwitz.

    FUCK THESE PEOPLE.
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by undo on Wed Feb 15, 2017 4:12 am

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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by Ҩ on Wed Feb 15, 2017 12:49 pm

    I can't believe how quickly this administration is imploding.
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by Nick on Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:28 pm

    I'm actually legit concerned most days that we are on the brink of nuclear war with Russia. Probably just paranoia brought about by the Trump administration being shambles. But I also wonder if Putin would be like fuck it what do we have to lose?
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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

    Post by chrondog on Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:51 pm

    This is the reality we're in. Anything could blow up at any time because we've given the keys to some of the most incompetent, irresponsible, immoral, self-serving, ideologically rigid, unthinking, egotistical, awful people in the history of this country. All it takes is one mistake. The irresponsible voters who wanted a "shakeup in Washington" and aren't serious about the consequences of their actions are to blame. This is what they didn't understand when they cast their vote. And the media did not do an adequate job of laying this point bare. The voters put cultural identity politics over country, like they said was unconscionable. The media did not explain that putting a know-nothing sociopath in charge of the armed forces could result in the death of thousands (or even more). Even if it doesn't come to pass, this entire administration is playing with fire.

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    Re: The Donald J. Trump Presidency

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