+14
ClosetOfExhaustion
WP64
jesus jones
chrondog
Ned Braden
Duff...
Ted Falconi
Michael K.
Nick
yancy
techno raj
reuben
Gene Bootcut
undo
18 posters

    college forever

    chrondog
    chrondog
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3731
    Pizzas : 342
    Join date : 2013-01-03

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by chrondog Mon Mar 10, 2014 11:45 pm

    wp64 wrote:I'm materially and ideologically opposed to everything in existence.

    reminded me of this part from the great Peter Lanza New Yorker piece today

    Émile Durkheim, the great scholar of suicide, wrote that it can be “not an act of despair, but of abnegation.” Adam abnegated humanity with his act.
    WP64
    WP64
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3650
    Pizzas : 65
    Join date : 2013-09-02
    Age : 30
    DispositionIntransigent

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by WP64 Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:03 am

    C-poots wrote:Why are you doing this obnoxious persona though? You used to be tolerable, even sort of enjoyable to engage with on here.

    If this is how you are in real life, you are going to hate yourself when you look back on your college experience and realize it was awful because you were a closed-off little shit to everyone.
    I act impulsively and erratically out of frustration. I'm at a point in my education where I know what I like and what I don't like. So being forced to spend time doing mundane shit really sucks. Because then I can't get as much out of my real interests. Also, fuck this professor. He is a real prick.
    WP64
    WP64
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3650
    Pizzas : 65
    Join date : 2013-09-02
    Age : 30
    DispositionIntransigent

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by WP64 Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:50 am

    I'll explain once I am done with this paper. 7 pages in right now which is pretty solid progress actually!  dubstep 
    jesus jones
    jesus jones
    Tub of Lemon Chobani


    Posts : 803
    Pizzas : 259
    Join date : 2012-12-25

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by jesus jones Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:51 am

    you need to figure out how to deal with all that anger, dude
    C-poots
    C-poots
    Shiek


    Posts : 1094
    Pizzas : 201
    Join date : 2013-05-12

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by C-poots Tue Mar 11, 2014 12:55 am

    Deal with that anger, and also realize that interests shift and change. For someone of your type, who doesn't like systems, who likes to challenge authority, who likes to push boundaries of thought, you're being pretty dogmatic in the way you're approaching things.

    Dude may be a prick, but you are too so take it as a sign to quit acting as such.
    WP64
    WP64
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3650
    Pizzas : 65
    Join date : 2013-09-02
    Age : 30
    DispositionIntransigent

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by WP64 Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:30 am

    I'm mostly just upset because at this point in my life it is way too much pressure to expect that I can actually do anything productive or impressive with my studies. I'm doing a mini-thesis with a graduate student here and it is just really difficult and exhausting. And next year I am doing a thesis project on my own with the help of my Deleuze & Foucault professor. It's such a cool opportunity and I have so much fun with it 98% of the time.

    But then I realize how impermanent it is. Which sucks. I'm not going to be able to get into most graduate programs. Ideally I'd like to get right into a doctoral program where I could get a stipend. That would be awesome. I'd spend six years doing what I love, teaching a few classes, and getting paid enough to thriftily survive somewhere on my own. The likelihood of me actually being able to pull that off seems borderline impossible and so I just get really frustrated.

    And assuming I do pull it off. One of the all-time greatest dudes I've ever met is a philosophy teacher here at DePaul. He recently finished his PhD (a year and a half ago I think) and has been unable to find any employment. That isn't surprising, obviously. But it is so fucked up to me that this guy is actually eating off food stamps because he likes to hang out and invigorate the lives of students. Thankfully DePaul has been nice enough to give him their leftover classes while he remains on a job search but that doesn't pay for shit.

    All of this just compounds and makes me unbelievably pissed off when I encounter these pretentious, self-righteous professors. There are a million people that would take your job, do it better, and be cooler about it in the process. Like, how is someone actually interested in how the free market can solve the carbon emission crisis? He thinks it is so cool that companies can buy and sell each others shares of carbon output.  disgustedatrightwing 

    Either way. I love what I am doing now. I don't ever think that I am getting enough out of it. I feel an insane amount of pressure to pull things off that are beyond my capabilities. Shit like that. It is reading as anger but it just coming from a really deep-seeded frustration with what I think my future could be. I shouldn't be worried about it as much as I am. But fuck man.
    WP64
    WP64
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3650
    Pizzas : 65
    Join date : 2013-09-02
    Age : 30
    DispositionIntransigent

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by WP64 Tue Mar 11, 2014 1:42 am

    P.S. I'm not exactly writing the paper I said I was. Although I'm using some of it. The last two pages were spent trying to problematize Lipset's modernization theory (economic development causes democratization).

    But this... "capital becomes a very mystic being since all of labour’s social productive forces appear to be due to capital, rather than labour as such, and seem to issue from the womb of capital itself.” - Deleuze
    undo
    undo
    Internet's Busiest Music Nerd


    Posts : 6420
    Pizzas : 1133
    Join date : 2012-12-25
    Location : small craft on a milk sea

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by undo Tue Mar 11, 2014 4:23 pm

    My classmates are so goddamn stupid I can barely believe it. It's one thing not to understand something, it's another to talk through the whole fucking lecture and not take any notes and spend the whole class talking about how fucked up you got last weekend for the nth week in a row and looking at shit on your phone the whole time and then honestly wonder why you don't know what's going on. But no the teacher's assistant explained something slightly differently than the professor so it's his fault and you should insult him when you're trying to get his help, sounds like a plan!

    Or maybe being a narcissistic piece of shit who blames everyone else for their problems is what it takes to make it through college in 2014, I dunno.
    C-poots
    C-poots
    Shiek


    Posts : 1094
    Pizzas : 201
    Join date : 2013-05-12

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by C-poots Tue Mar 11, 2014 11:35 pm

    Also, I think cap and trade is a fairly innovative/smart strategy to curb pollution and I do find the development of such a system pretty interesting; it being a potentially effective way of reducing CO2 emissions among other harmful toxins while distributing excess emissions using a system not far unlike the ur-markets of bartering.

    But yeah, still fuck that guy.
    chrondog
    chrondog
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3731
    Pizzas : 342
    Join date : 2013-01-03

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by chrondog Wed Mar 12, 2014 12:06 am

    undo wrote:Or maybe being a narcissistic piece of shit who blames everyone else for their problems is what it takes to make it through college in 2014, I dunno.

    a huge portion of the community college population will never end up getting a degree of any kind.

    the stereotype is that its the universities that are full of kids wanting to get drunk on their parents money, but junior colleges have much higher dropout rates. some of that is because many working class and working people attend community college for sure. but many other underachieving people will spend half a decade and thousands of their parents dollars to enjoy serial drinking & complaining and won't even get to brag about how they went to "U of Blahblah".
    coyote
    coyote
    A classically handsome man's man in the Huey Lewis mold


    Posts : 506
    Pizzas : 99
    Join date : 2012-12-26

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by coyote Wed Mar 12, 2014 1:27 am

    Undo, what are you in college for and where do you attend?

    Are you getting a masters degree? Seems like you have been in college since I began boarding.
    WP64
    WP64
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3650
    Pizzas : 65
    Join date : 2013-09-02
    Age : 30
    DispositionIntransigent

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by WP64 Wed Mar 12, 2014 2:55 am

    C-poots wrote:Also, I think cap and trade is a fairly innovative/smart strategy to curb pollution and I do find the development of such a system pretty interesting; it being a potentially effective way of reducing CO2 emissions among other harmful toxins while distributing excess emissions using a system not far unlike the ur-markets of bartering.

    But yeah, still fuck that guy.
    Figured you would say as much.  mang 
    C-poots
    C-poots
    Shiek


    Posts : 1094
    Pizzas : 201
    Join date : 2013-05-12

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by C-poots Wed Mar 12, 2014 9:23 am

    Wouldn't want to let you down, good buddy.
     aw hellz yeah 
    undo
    undo
    Internet's Busiest Music Nerd


    Posts : 6420
    Pizzas : 1133
    Join date : 2012-12-25
    Location : small craft on a milk sea

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by undo Wed Mar 12, 2014 8:17 pm

    coyote wrote:Undo, what are you in college for and where do you attend?

    allied health/medical stuff, Lewis U in Romeoville

    I don't even know how to explain why this is what I'm doing right now, believe me this is not how I planned things to go
    zappo
    zappo
    Supermasculine Menial


    Posts : 4478
    Pizzas : 870
    Join date : 2012-12-25

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by zappo Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:05 pm

    You will come out on top, B. Just keep on keepin' on.
    coyote
    coyote
    A classically handsome man's man in the Huey Lewis mold


    Posts : 506
    Pizzas : 99
    Join date : 2012-12-26

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by coyote Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:31 pm

    undo wrote:
    coyote wrote:Undo, what are you in college for and where do you attend?

    allied health/medical stuff, Lewis U in Romeoville

    I don't even know how to explain why this is what I'm doing right now, believe me this is not how I planned things to go

    Allied Health seems like a pretty broad field. Any focus?

    For me, I never thought I'd be in my same job at this point. Was going to get a Master's but we had a baby girl. You can never predict how things work out. I'm living like a king in a big house but all of what I have could topple like a house of cards at any moment. And I'm okay with that. You got to go where your passions take you.
    chrondog
    chrondog
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3731
    Pizzas : 342
    Join date : 2013-01-03

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by chrondog Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:53 pm

    wp64 wrote:Like, how is someone actually interested in how the free market can solve the carbon emission crisis? He thinks it is so cool that companies can buy and sell each others shares of carbon output.  disgustedatrightwing 

    cap and trade is, by definition, not a free market. the phrase you're looking for is "market-based" approach/model/system. that individuals and groups are motivated by market forces is a given. people are out here trying to survive and they need money to do it. what societies and governments can do is to legislate, using an understanding of how people react to incentives in the market, to create a regulated market that has economic incentives that line up with social goals like fighting climate change.

    sensible and pragmatic people think market-based approaches to policy are cool because they actually work.
    chrondog
    chrondog
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3731
    Pizzas : 342
    Join date : 2013-01-03

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by chrondog Wed Mar 12, 2014 10:57 pm

    undo wrote:
    coyote wrote:Undo, what are you in college for and where do you attend?

    allied health/medical stuff, Lewis U in Romeoville

    I don't even know how to explain why this is what I'm doing right now, believe me this is not how I planned things to go

    my previous post about community colleges is even more blindingly stupid now. i guess i hadn't picked up that you moved on to University, but congratulations my man.

    the health field is always growing and i'm sure it will lead to a great career if you end up sticking with it.

    coyote wrote:Was going to get a Master's but we had a baby girl.  You can never predict how things work out.  I'm living like a king in a big house but all of what I have could topple like a house of cards at any moment.  And I'm okay with that.  You got to go where your passions take you.  

     mang 
    WP64
    WP64
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3650
    Pizzas : 65
    Join date : 2013-09-02
    Age : 30
    DispositionIntransigent

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by WP64 Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:02 pm

    jasperness wrote:sensible and pragmatic people
    I take issue with this part of it. Someone/something isn't 'sensible and pragmatic' just because they can develop market-based incentives to curb blatantly harmful behavior within a normalized system of economic oppression and environmental destruction.
    WP64
    WP64
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3650
    Pizzas : 65
    Join date : 2013-09-02
    Age : 30
    DispositionIntransigent

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by WP64 Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:07 pm

    I'm not opposed to government regulation. I just think it is a boring, at least in an academic setting, because it is painfully obvious and leads to the sort of liberal arrogance and that is even more grating than conservative savagery.
    chrondog
    chrondog
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3731
    Pizzas : 342
    Join date : 2013-01-03

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by chrondog Wed Mar 12, 2014 11:22 pm

    wp64 wrote:
    jasperness wrote:sensible and pragmatic people
    I take issue with this part of it. Someone/something isn't 'sensible and pragmatic' just because they can develop market-based incentives to curb blatantly harmful behavior within a normalized system of economic oppression and environmental destruction.

    i don't understand that second sentence. it's not pragmatic because they can develop the idea, it's pragmatic because it is something that could actually be implemented and effective in the given political climate (aka the "real world"). i would say that it is far more pragmatic to develop climate change prescriptions within the existing economic structures of global market capitalism than to try and overthrow global market capitalism. disagree? further, the characterization of global market capitalism as a "system of economic oppression and environmental destruction" is a little simplistic. yes, the profit motive creates incentives for many forms of economic oppression and environmental destruction, but that's not the way it has to be.

    wp64 wrote:I'm not opposed to government regulation. I just think it is a boring, at least in an academic setting, because it is painfully obvious and leads to the sort of liberal arrogance and that is even more grating than conservative savagery.

    i think it's far more interesting in an academic setting than a political one. within academic and policy-making circles, regulation is viewed on the merit and the economics of it. but there is still a ton of disagreement and different assumptions that one can make in modeling any situation that leads to different conclusions. it's not really "painfully obvious". in the toxic political environment, in which the conservative movement has no policy agenda, good policy is simply savaged by know-nothing ideologues.

    "liberal arrogance" can only be "more grating than conservative savagery" if you're just being an arrogant liberal contrarian yourself. sure, it's annoying when anyone thinks they have actually solved real problems just because they wrote a paper and analyzed the situation. but earnestly seeking and advocating for things you believe in is a good thing. rehashing divisive ideological battles and "sticking to your principles" is actually bullshit.
    WP64
    WP64
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3650
    Pizzas : 65
    Join date : 2013-09-02
    Age : 30
    DispositionIntransigent

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by WP64 Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:05 am

    jasperness wrote:i don't understand that second sentence. it's not pragmatic because they can develop the idea, it's pragmatic because it is something that could actually be implemented and effective in the given political climate (aka the "real world"). i would say that it is far more pragmatic to develop climate change prescriptions within the existing economic structures of global market capitalism than to try and overthrow global market capitalism. disagree?
    Point taken.

    jasperness wrote:further, the characterization of global market capitalism as a "system of economic oppression and environmental destruction" is a little simplistic. yes, the profit motive creates incentives for many forms of economic oppression and environmental destruction, but that's not the way it has to be.
    Actually, I don't know. How are we defining 'global market capitalism'. As it has been theorized it has nothing to fall back other than profit maximization. Obviously markets aren't self-regulating but that doesn't mean that the ideological debate isn't dominated by free-market ideologues that continue to maintain that blatant lie. Are you confusing the practice of Keynesianism with the ideology of the free market?

    jasperness wrote:in the toxic political environment, in which the conservative movement has no policy agenda, good policy is simply savaged by know-nothing ideologues.
    The free market doesn't exist outside of the empty rhetoric of these 'know-nothing ideologues' though.

    jasperness wrote:rehashing divisive ideological battles and "sticking to your principles" is actually bullshit.
    I can't tell if you're accusing me of doing this but I guess I tepidly agree with you. I know nothing of actual economics and have very casual familiarity the cannon of political economy. I'm not an analytical mind. Obviously the political atmosphere would benefit immensely from actual analysis of our social and economic realities and nothing is worse than ethically vacuous dogmatism. I'm not an expert but I think Marx's Capital is increasingly relevant to our contemporary situation. That's just a hunch though.
    C-poots
    C-poots
    Shiek


    Posts : 1094
    Pizzas : 201
    Join date : 2013-05-12

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by C-poots Thu Mar 13, 2014 12:46 am

    It seems you've become more and more interested in the Trotsky/Lenin/Marx/etc era of philosophical, economic, and political thought lately, which is surely not a bad thing but I would advise perhaps when making statements like "I think Marx's Capital is increasingly relevant to our contemporary situation", you may want to take pause at your own admission that you "know nothing of actual economics" first.

    Not to be a dick, but really it might be worth researching this stuff further before you throw it out there.
    WP64
    WP64
    Mystery Thread Deleter


    Posts : 3650
    Pizzas : 65
    Join date : 2013-09-02
    Age : 30
    DispositionIntransigent

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by WP64 Thu Mar 13, 2014 1:25 am

    What would you recommend? Have you ever read any David Harvey?
    C-poots
    C-poots
    Shiek


    Posts : 1094
    Pizzas : 201
    Join date : 2013-05-12

    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by C-poots Thu Mar 13, 2014 9:47 am

    I'm the wrong person to ask as I haven't studied Marxism and only have a general familiarity with both his Das Kapital and his views on Communism. I have a familiarity with his Labor Theory of Value (though I don't recall the minutiae of it) but I don't necessarily agree with him that labor is the factor which brings rise to surplus value and, in turn, profits for the capitalist.

    The commoditization of art is a pretty strong argument against this theory; the respective intrinsic values of each piece is what command its market value, not the labor in producing the work, and as time adds value to some pieces and subtracts value from others with no further input of labor, the theory that labor adds surplus value goes out the window.

    I realize this is a simplification of his theory; I'm just giving my (admittedly rusty) view on a particular theory of his which seems weakly arguable and if this is the idea you find increasingly relevant to contemporary society - at least in developed economic markets - then I have to disagree as it is too easily refuted (academically and practically).

    Sponsored content


    college forever - Page 4 Empty Re: college forever

    Post by Sponsored content


      Current date/time is Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:26 am