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    women you can't stand

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    Post by chrondog Sun Jun 23, 2013 5:12 pm

    i'm really really underexposed on Selena because nothing she does is in my wheelhouse at all. her music is really bad. she was on new agey Disney shows that aren't funny. i don't read the magazines she's in or the sites where they gossip about her personal life. i think i'll watch a Spring Breakers cam soon. i think, Undo, you may also be frustrated with a part of the media culture whereby someone like Selena breaks into the public consciousness and never leaves even though they never put out any material of interest. because she is "famous" she doesn't have to do much quality control, she just always can do niche marketing to her fan base and get her face on the magazines and articles written about her. stuff like when Spring Breakers came out and people lazily wrote she was "leaving the good girl image behind and challenging herself!" because it's literally the first thing they could think of to write. whatever she does is automatically promoted as celebrity and relevant because she is anointed as such. that is truly annoying.

    she is totally pretty, but not classically pretty and is ethnically ambiguous enough that people can project themselves on to her. i think that's been key to her success.
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    Post by undo Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:00 pm

    jasperness wrote:i think you'd find this statement a big stretch if you took more time to try and convince people that Hillary Duff was a "sweet, fun" and ultimately interesting personality while Selena Gomez was too rich and entitled to be liked. they've had fairly similar career arcs and there's nothing that either has done to really separate them into two separate categories like that.

    you really had to be there, I guess

    the dawning of poptimism
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    Post by chrondog Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:08 pm

    how many episodes of Lizzie McGuire have you seen, Undo?

    this is one of the only videos i ever made and uploaded to my YouTube channel:

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    Post by Gene Bootcut Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:14 pm

    undo wrote:
    you really had to be there, I guess

    the dawning of poptimism

    Please elaborate.
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    Post by Bruegel Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:33 pm

    ethnically ambiguous women you'd like to project yourself onto


    Last edited by Bruegel on Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:40 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by undo Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:40 pm

    Chrono, your 2nd 3rd post pretty much sums up my feelings about her and about "celebrity culture" in general

    all this came to a head for me when I saw that stupid cover and could no longer contain myself


    Last edited by undo on Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by chrondog Sun Jun 23, 2013 6:49 pm

    thread has me listening to this former members-only Ninja Turtles Fan Forum 1.0 deep cut:

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    Post by undo Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:06 pm

    and I'm also legitimately worried that at some point, perhaps very soon, my criticisms of teen pop/the Disney music machine will say more about me and how old I'm getting (which I feel oddly sensitive about and am not adjusting to with any grace whatsoever) than anything else, and will just serve as an indictment against myself and how my opinions about culture are no longer valid or meaningful.

    Boarding from my ipod at work right now, unfortunately I these posts will probably suffer as a result.
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    Post by chrondog Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:06 pm

    undo wrote:Chrono, your 2nd post pretty much sums up my feelings about her and about "celebrity culture" in general

    the media sucks. they will always promote the familiar and find ways to fit familiar faces into new narratives. why are we talking about Amanda Bynes in 2013? because notoriety is more important than producing good content. there's so much content out there already that the more trivial and memeable the information the more it is transmitted. that's why "shots fired" between celebrities are reported endlessly but no one will read an interview with Selena about her new album.

    i try and separate these figures into "an active negative on the culture" and "relative nothings on the culture". someone like Selena who just sort of exists and does what people tell her to do and puts out weightless material is hard for me to hate because she just doesn't do enough negative stuff. i save my ire for people like Rihanna who occasionally put out interesting music but actively promote and embrace the elements of the culture you find repulsive, i.e. lack of empathy, obsession with class, sexuality as the primary source of power for women, etc.


    Last edited by jasperness on Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:15 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Post by chrondog Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:11 pm

    undo wrote:and I'm also legitimately worried that at some point, perhaps very soon, my criticisms of teen pop/the Disney music machine will say more about me and how old I'm getting (which I feel oddly sensitive about and am not adjusting to with any grace whatsoever) than anything else, and will just serve as an indictment against myself and how my opinions about culture are no longer valid or meaningful.

    this is very important to be mindful of.

    if you're not careful it makes it seem like your argument is more based on this line: "I don't think she's smart. She probably won't go to college. I don't like her face." 

    rather than this line: "It says a lot about our culture that we don't even have a conversation about what kind of a fucked up message this is sending to our daughters, who positively adore this bitch."
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    Post by undo Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:13 pm

    As a young pop star, when people over a certain age start complaining about you, it's often a sign that you're doing something right.

    So it's like the more I complain about her or whatever the new version of her is that'll come out next year, the more she wins.
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    Post by chrondog Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:17 pm

    this new Selena song is pretty cute Neutral



    i don't like the wormhole this discussion is taking me down
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    Post by chrondog Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:22 pm

    just listened to "Come & Get It" for the first time

    think i'm totally onboard with this new Selena Gomez album dubstep
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    Post by undo Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:25 pm

    jasperness wrote:
    if you're not careful it makes it seem like your argument is more based on this line: "I don't think she's smart. She probably won't go to college. I don't like her face." 

    I want to reserve my right to such gut-level reactions, although I realize I'd be better off keeping them to myself when they're that retarded.

    I don't think that everyone should go to college, but I'd respect her more if I found out that school was in her plans. Even the Olsen twins went to college.
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    Post by chrondog Sun Jun 23, 2013 7:34 pm

    undo wrote:I want to reserve my right to such gut-level reactions, although I realize I'd be better off keeping them to myself when they're that retarded.

    i think you're right to put them out there. there isn't enough explicit recognition in our critical culture that an emotional and an intellectual reaction to something are two different things and that even though an emotional reaction might be unfair, it is worth trying to understand. there's also too great a tendency to try and persecute people for their emotional gut-reactions to things. i think we should be more tolerant of the fact that people can think and feel abhorrent (or even just silly) things and that what makes us right or good is not endorsing and promoting those negative things we feel. someone who admits their biases is much more able to be right than people who pretend like they don't have any.
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    Post by monotony Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:12 pm

    monotony wrote:Did we mention Amanda Palmer already?

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/music/2013/jun/22/amanda-palmer-visionary-egotist-interview ughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
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    Post by Gene Bootcut Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:16 pm

    Crosspost Jon Ronson to the theoretical 'men you can't stand' thread.
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    Post by monotony Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:23 pm

    As for Selena, I've never really found her music compelling at all, but I just see her as a strange target for your qualms about celebrity culture given that she seems to be a nice and relatively intelligent young woman who has been a part of "the industry" since she was, 10 or whatever. Still haven't seen it but I've heard many say that Never Say Never changes their opinion somewhat w/r/t Bieber, and I wouldn't be surprised to learn that Selena has grown up in a similar way to he - surrounded by adults and not very free to do as she pleases. Of course, that's just speculation as I don't know that much about her life. I'm not able to rewatch it at work but I recall her Letterman appearance during Spring Breakers promo to be charming, if not particularly illuminating.

    I guess I also just kind of liked Spring Breakers a lot and hope to see it again before it leaves theatres.

    Jasper, what are your thoughts on "We Can't Stop"?
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    Post by Gene Bootcut Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:26 pm

    monotony wrote: before it leaves theatres.

    Australia
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    Post by monotony Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:28 pm

    Soma wrote:Crosspost Jon Ronson to the theoretical 'men you can't stand' thread.

    We could probably do with one of these.

    I dunno who the writer is, but god some of these soundbites, I mean...how do you not realise how horrid and self-aggrandising you sound?

    "I was just a very dark kid," she says. "My family was complicated."

    "Oh?" I say, my ears pricking up. "What were the problems?"

    "I actually put my finger on it recently while discussing something with my family," she replies, "and realised what precisely the chasm between me and them might be. It was a house of no metaphors. I had very literal parents and I wanted to survive with metaphor and art, and there was a real sense of shame around it."

    "They were judgmental towards you?" I ask.

    "There was a real judgment cast in my family about me wanting attention," she nods. "It wasn't that my parents didn't encourage my artistic pursuits – they did very much – but they didn't understand them."

    "But the $1.2m," I say.

    "I immediately spent all that money on the packaging and the mailing, and it was all gone six weeks later."

    "Really?" I say.

    "The pain and irony of my situation now is that everyone thinks I'm rich," she says.

    [...]

    Around half past midnight we share Gaiman's limo – provided by his publishers – back into central Philadelphia. She and Gaiman stay at the Ritz-Carlton, while I stay at the crappier DoubleTree down the road.
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    Post by monotony Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:37 pm

    Soma wrote:
    monotony wrote:  before it leaves theatres.

    Australia

    Tell me about it. Because we get everything late we are among the highest piraters of film and TV in the world, apparently. http://www.smh.com.au/entertainment/tv-and-radio/stop-stealing-game-of-thrones-says-us-ambassador-to-australians-20130427-2ilam.html
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    Post by chrondog Sun Jun 23, 2013 9:52 pm

    monotony wrote:Jasper, what are your thoughts on "We Can't Stop"?

    the Miley twerking video?

    i'm avoiding it for the time being
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    Post by ClosetOfExhaustion Sun Jun 23, 2013 10:19 pm

    gonna go watch this selena interview on letterman because it's the only way i'll be able to form a valid opinion of her.  couldn't make it through either song posted.
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    Post by undo Wed Jun 26, 2013 5:27 pm

    women you can't stand - Page 4 5usq
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    Post by Nick Tue Jul 09, 2013 1:23 pm

    Damn, 2 of the 3 Ohio kidnap victims clean up real nice after 10 years of being tortured by Mexicans.

    Probably going to have some sexual hang ups though because of that little situation ("issues") thus the reason for posting here.

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