THE 2016 US PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION

I saw the headline of that Atlantic article this morning and couldn't even...

Hillary still got this on lock. She would have to fuck up so badly (which I guess is possible) because there just isn't much room 4 Trump's electorate to grow. As 4 the #NeverHillary #BernieorBust movement, it's just really shitty to start lecturing the (young) Left and whipping them into shape. It's a disturbing tendency. They aren't wrong 4 not wanting to support her and I could articulate a lot of reasons why her brand of liberalism is shitty. And we shouldn't excuse the things that she has said as "she is just trying to show strength as a woman to be elected" when she says absolutely terrifying things about her foreign policy agenda. Because she actually does believe the things that she is saying and even if she doesn't believe in it, she would act on them, which is what matters anyway.

I don't know maybe us old people can still remember what happened when we all voted 4 Ralph Nader.

Soma wrote:A lot of old people seem to think that it means health and safety.

Maybe that's true where U come from but in America we take care of our own health and safety with guns. Like God intended.

Ҩ wrote:As 4 the #NeverHillary #BernieorBust movement, it's just really shitty to start lecturing the (young) Left and whipping them into shape.

It's not like these people R above lecturing themselves.

Sanders gave it his best shot and will almost definitely fall short, meaning Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump will be president. I still think the vast majority of Sanders supporters will do the right thing so I'm not sweating it, but hearing people say idiotic shit like "I at least know where I stand with Trump!" makes me think we probably deserve some orange destroyer to bring about the end of civilization.

If Obama keeps polling at +50 approval rating, it will be very unlikely 4 the GOP to take the White House in November.

There can’t be too many Obama supporters that also like Trump.

I'm certain that Hilary will seal the White House after the first debate. She's a professional politician who probably dreams about destroying someone like Trump in a debate.

How long R the debates? Usually 2 hours? Within the first 45 minutes she will have him saying the craziest shit that repulses a majority of "undecided" voters or those Republicans that R hoping Trump calms down come General Election times.

The remaining debates will be Trump damage control while Hilary reinforces how beyond him she is on economic, foreign & domestic policy.

Ҩ wrote:They aren't wrong 4 not wanting to support her

Oh, they most certainly R. As the young Trump supporter illustrated, young people have a skewed notion of risktaking, especially in a political context. When U're young it can be difficult to C things getting substantially worse in your own lifetime--U haven't lived long enough as a political being to even C big changes occur. The gap in the quality of life between a Hillary victory and a Trump victory is, in my mind, enormous. That someone would choose to discount that is, I think, a fatal flaw.

In terms of wanting 2"stand up to the two party machine" or "fundamentally change the political system", sure, I theoretically would back those ideas too. But failing to acknowledge reality--the strength of American democracy and the stranglehold of our two party system--is as flawed a political POV as any. It's flat wrong.

     

Hillary Clinton wrote:Donald Trump’s ideas aren’t just different; they R dangerously incoherent. They’re not even really ideas, just a series of bizarre rants, personal feuds, and outright lies. He is not just unprepared, he is temperamentally unfit to hold an office that requires knowledge, stability, and immense responsibility. This is not someone who should ever have the nuclear codes, because it’s not hard to imagine Donald Trump leading us into a war just because someone got under his very thin skin.

BURNSAUCE.

I'm gonna miss Obama so much.

Now that Hilary is the DNC nominee, I'd like to get a comprehensive rundown on what she is proposing once in office. Does anyone know of a site that has listed her plan?

her website?

C-poots wrote:Now that Hilary is the DNC nominee, I'd like to get a comprehensive rundown on what she is proposing once in office. Does anyone know of a site that has listed her plan?

serious question here, how much do U think those proposals will tell U?

i'm interested to hear how much influence U think campaign policy proposals have on the way someone will govern. my sense is that whoever is elected has to reorient themselves to whatever policy agenda is being kicked around by congress and this shit doesn't matter much.

I think those proposals R a strong indicator of how someone intends to govern. Obviously a lot of what a president can actually get done will be limited to the extent that congress is willing to work with them.

Obama has a pretty good track record of keeping his campaign promises. Even more impressive considering the scorched Earth obstruction he has faced from a GOP controlled congress 4 most of his 2 terms.

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

I don't think a certain group of people R emotionally prepared 4 Bernie Sanders' extremely likely eventual endorsement of Hillary Clinton.

Yeah gonna be hard 4 actual Democrats.

Ouch!

This is the thing I talk to people in bars about now, and that's depressing as shit.

At least some old dude tonight steered me away from the filth and sadness and started talking about Roy Orbison and Sam Cooke.

tjenz wrote:I think those proposals R a strong indicator of how someone intends to govern.  Obviously a lot of what a president can actually get done will be limited to the extent that congress is willing to work with them.  

Obama has a pretty good track record of keeping his campaign promises.  Even more impressive considering the scorched Earth obstruction he has faced from a GOP controlled congress 4 most of his 2 terms.  

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/promises/obameter/

I basically agree with this and understand that there may be blind opposition along the way, and understand that she may need to shift her ideas in one way or another in order to actually affect change, but I still find value in understanding where her baselines stand going in.

And her website may be useful but I was more hoping to find out if it was up-to-date on her stance as she has already moved on certain policy ideas throughout the primary campaign season.

i reach the opposite conclusion from that data. if half or more of what's on the agenda is a "broken promise" or a "compromise", it says to me that legislative strategy and the ability to get things done at the opportune moment is more important than policy outlines.

i get the desire to do due diligence, but what new info do U expect to learn through a deep dive into HRC's campaign positions? "not that there's anything wrong with that."

I actually think the political discourse in the USA hit a new low following the Orlando attacks in the past 48 hours. This is maybe the darkest depth yet and we still have the Republican Convention to look forward to.

Yesterday was like Christmas 4 Trump supporters and they didn't even try to hide it.

That doesn't necessarily mean a boost in the polls 4 him but that's not what I'm talking about anyway.

undo wrote:Yesterday was like Christmas 4 Trump supporters and they didn't even try to hide it.

That doesn't necessarily mean a boost in the polls 4 him but that's not what I'm talking about anyway.

Right I can't look at poll numbers or give much of a shit about that this early. I imagine it only emboldened those firmly in his camp. But if U're an "undecided" and not seriously disgusted by this slob U have no soul.

Hilary has navigated it as well as one could I suppose. But what can U do when The Onion provides the most accurate post-mass shooting reporting now?

it's pretty frustrating the way all of these different situations and issues have been conflated under the umbrella term "mass shooting". it's such a reductive way to look at the various violent incidences we have in this country.

the Orlando shooting involved someone on a terror watch list AND an assault rifle. this is EXACTLY the kind of tragedy that can be prevented by common sense legislation. most hobbyists don't even want an assault weapon and the notion of privacy has shifted so far since 9/11 that most Americans R on board with barring people on watch lists from having certain privileges (like buying a gun). these R straightforward ideas that most people agree with and want implemented.

assault weapons aren't always used in so-called "mass shootings". the attacker isn't always someone who was directly monitored by intelligence services. i hope these R the specifics we end up focusing on from this event and taking targeted action on those fronts. the early stuff i've seen about closing the watch list loophole is promising.