by chrondog Fri Apr 07, 2017 9:47 pm
The fall of the Ottoman System is the starting point for all of these questions in terms of Western involvement. It relates because the pattern hasn't changed. Western powers believe they are responsible for policing this region. I'm not suggesting that a 100 year old agreement has any real geopolitical weight, I'm speaking as a historian. It is a large pillar of the intellectual root of Western involvement in these conflicts.
I'm not implying any of that. In fact, I'm explicitly suggesting that Westerners trying to create the "solution" is itself the problem. I think that an eventual solution WILL involve reconfiguring borders, possibly along ethnic or religious lines, but I wouldn't suggest that I or anyone else that doesn't have their life on the line over there decide what that will look like. Nationalisms created in the wake of WWI are now part of the equation along with tribal or sectarian ties, and those allegiances need to be sorted out if there is to be the formation of pluralistic societies. However, I have no confidence that foreign meddling has anything to add to that debate. The issue is that governments around the world absolutely cannot separate humanitarian support from their own interests. Enhancing spheres of influence is so thoroughly tied up in the thinking of leaders all across the globe.
The United States, as the hegemonic global superpower, is the only force that could give legitimacy to international law and we have consistently flouted it. Leadership by example from the US is the first step to creating a globalist "new world order". However, that is explicitly against the goals of this administration. Over the next four years we will move further and further away from that goal.
Your question about historical revolutions is a salient one and definitely scores points for your argument. The one I can think of right away is Haiti, haha. The Chinese Maoist revolution succeeded in taking power despite foreign powers backing the Nationalists, which gave it a superlegitimacy in many ways. The Russian Revolution was largely internal, though many of its chief architects were globally educated and inspired abroad. I think part of the issue in the Middle East is that the credibility of foreign powers has been so eroded that even well-intentioned and sophisticated efforts to "help out" are met with contempt from one side or another.
Again, I would be more open to the idea of the "moral imperative" of humanitarian efforts if, A) we had any credibility on that front, B) we were open to a very limited level of involvement that didn't involve jets and drones dropping bombs, and, C) if our leaders talked a better talk in terms of suggesting that the US would sacrifice its own interests in an effort to save lives. For me, it is near-impossible to imagine any scenario where US airstrikes or troops on the ground won't have catastrophic unintended consequences.
Perhaps its slightly disingenuous or hypocritical of me to be taking such a hardline stance that doesn't consider the individual context as much as I could, but when I see liberals on this message board, Hillary Clinton, and others come out and say "oh yeah, we should bomb everyone who uses chemical weapons on civilians", it makes me SO SO nervous about what else you guys will support in the name of "morality". News flash, dropping bombs is an incredibly twisted notion of the correct moral choice.