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    Uptick in Police Violence

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    Post by chrondog Fri Dec 03, 2021 2:15 pm

    WP64 wrote:
    chrondog wrote:All "common sense" and no actual sense.
    This is a really good insight. But the question that should always be asked, at least amongst 'progressives' themselves, is what we are actually doing to shift the "common sense" in the country? When people talk about cultural hegemony, this is exactly what they mean. Unfortunately, the political culture of progressive movements have become increasingly insular. I'll defend liberal arts and the humanities until my dying breath but the way in which critical theory discourse has been instrumentalized amongst certain activist circles is incredibly pernicious. As someone who obviously supports the political aims of the abolitionist movement (and has also had my own political assumptions and world view challenged by their critical insight), I was always painfully aware of the self-imposed limitations of these 'progressive' slogans.

    Not really adding a whole ton to the conversation here but I actually understand the sentiment of JBW's post.

    Thanks! That's a line I use a lot. I think it's important to recognize that reactionaries are very convinced of their own righteousness, their views are self-evident to them, and the framing that they are "acting against their own interest" is always wrong. I think we need to be more flexible in what we define as "their interest".

    The conservative movement exists in this country because, by and large, people come to similar conclusions about social issues. Since most people aren't particularly intellectual and just "go with what's right", I refer to that POV as "common sense" even though the views they come up with are often anti-science, anti-authority, anti-social, etc. The constructed wisdom of our country is inherently conservative.

    I think your question is good as well. And agree with your analysis that progressivism has been gatekept.

    Another line I used to use a lot is "it takes a college degree to talk about race now and that's privilege." Liberal academics created a modern language of race theory that was put out in the wider culture through social media. Then media personalities and Twitter heads made it cool to dunk on people for not knowing the lingo and speaking about race in the proper terms. Your average person is never going to think about race in a college-level academic setting and they shouldn't have to. They have to fucking go to work.

    It shouldn't be that way. Socialism and anti-racism should be promoted with proletarian language. Democrats are simply afraid that the "common sense" of the country is against them and they need to hide their true intentions.

    "We screwed Black Americans in this country for decades and we need to atone for that, just like you would with anyone you've wronged. Young Black Americans deserve housing assistance because we made it illegal for their grandparents to get government assistance and own a home."

    "Wealth transfer is what this country is about. We as the government regulate the markets, we support Wall Street, we run the Federal Reserve, we borrow money, we insure currency, we build roads, and information superhighways. We built that so Goldman Sachs could make billions of dollars. And we think that every American deserves a basic standard of living out of this deal. That is a society where we take care of each other and no company is worth more than a human being."

    The fairness of progressivism should be explained in the most basic terms.
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    Post by Duff... Fri Dec 03, 2021 3:41 pm

    Good posts.
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    Post by Duff... Fri Dec 03, 2021 4:43 pm

    I suppose to actually add something I'll say what Chrono is calling "common sense" which might be just be unexamined human nature includes the tendency to think that a punitive approach isn't just a good idea but the best idea, maybe the only idea worth considering, not just in criminal justice but in school discipline, in parenting, in international relations, if someone isn't paying then someone's getting away with something, someone's being a dupe.
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    Post by WP64 Sun Dec 05, 2021 8:20 pm

    chrondog wrote:The constructed wisdom of our country is inherently conservative.

    Democrats are simply afraid that the "common sense" of the country is against them and they need to hide their true intentions. The fairness of progressivism should be explained in the most basic terms.
    Duff... wrote:what Chrono is calling "common sense" which might be just be unexamined human nature
    I think there is a really important distinction to be made here actually. What Chrono is referring to as "common sense" is not unexamined human nature but rather socially constructed lenses through which the majority of people come to interpret the world around them. This is what makes culture a really important terrain of politics.

    Piketty uses the concept of the "Brahmin Left" to describe the elitist attitude of highly educated professional strata within society. It is obviously an incendiary descriptor but it does speak to the hallowing out of our national public spheres and the malformation of our democratic political cultures as well. There are all sorts of institutional tools at our disposal though to actually combat these problems. Reinforcing public education and reforming the way in which schools receive funding so that it is not dependent upon residential property taxes is probably the most obvious one. Basically just taking republican values and democratic principles seriously. None of this shit is even that revolutionary.
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    Post by chrondog Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:15 pm

    WP64 wrote:Piketty uses the concept of the "Brahmin Left" to describe the elitist attitude of highly educated professional strata within society.

    great term to describe all the terminally online morons on the left
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    Post by chrondog Mon Dec 06, 2021 2:20 pm

    WP64 wrote:Reinforcing public education and reforming the way in which schools receive funding so that it is not dependent upon residential property taxes is probably the most obvious one. Basically just taking republican values and democratic principles seriously. None of this shit is even that revolutionary.

    Agreed 1000%. Funnily enough, I've seen some online leftists say that public education and public healthcare are actually indoctrination tools of the state to brainwash people into consumer capitalism. So you won't event find full agreement on these points. Plus, who wants to actually be the Democrat to go out for school board in Branson, Missouri? That actual work of this is hard.

    I really think there is a much more pragmatic mix of leftist radicalism and technocratic reformism that can pull the most effective strands of both threads simultaneously. Leftists are just so fucking unimaginative about what that looks like. They're still quoting Marx and making bogus appeals to authority instead of striving for an actually modern political project that connects with real people who have their head glued to their phone and completely up their asshole.
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    Post by John Boy Walton Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:28 pm

    No.

    I am down with a lot of progressive agenda, I'm just dissapointed that it was all implemented so badly and I think the whole movement is going to get crushed.

    And, I feel like this opportunity won't come again.

    I don't want to live in a police state where people are segregated into prison and poverty.
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    Post by Duff... Tue Dec 07, 2021 2:36 pm

    WP64 wrote:Reinforcing public education and reforming the way in which schools receive funding so that it is not dependent upon residential property taxes is probably the most obvious one. Basically just taking republican values and democratic principles seriously. None of this shit is even that revolutionary.

    This would be huge in Illinois, where urban and rural schools get crumbs as North Shore hoards their wealth. Of course good luck fixing it after we let ourselves get conned by ultra rich people into voting against a tax cut through the progressive tax (god I'm still so pissed about that).
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    Post by John Boy Walton Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:07 pm

    undo wrote:what do u really want tho

    I want the Judaeo Christian work ethic to come back strong. I read the bible thoroughly, I applied it, and I'm very successful and happy as a direct result.
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    Post by John Boy Walton Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:09 pm

    Duff... wrote:
    John Boy Walton wrote:I knew that progressivism would fail in the real world and I saw it's collapse coming two years ago.

    And, the end result will be worse policing and an increased police state supported by both the left and the right.

    Stupid is as stupid does.

    "We didn't really try and things got worse for other completely unrelated reasons but obviously the answer is more cops with less oversight and we'll blame it on 'progressivism'."

    i dont like to rip people but you have proven over a long period of time to be someone who has a hard time grasping concepts that aren't linear.

    nothing you say could ever affect me you are so painfully predictable and un fun. the total opposite of undo.
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    Post by John Boy Walton Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:11 pm

    i mean, i know duff is probably a good guy, but he's just "challenged" on these boards.

    what a lap dog.
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    Post by John Boy Walton Tue Dec 07, 2021 9:13 pm

    Im gonna give a real nostalgiac moment here and over post and just say:

    You guys had an effect on me back in the day and it was fun. It was horrible in many ways, but in the end: I was stronger.

    I'll never forget the night I deleted Marty Party because it was so much better than what so many posters on this board ever dreamed of posting.
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    Post by Duff... Wed Dec 08, 2021 1:26 am

    John Boy Walton wrote:you are so painfully predictable and un fun.

    Well I think we found something we can agree upon.
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    Post by undo Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:16 pm

    John Boy Walton wrote:the Judaeo Christian work ethic

    what does this mean
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    Post by John Boy Walton Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:41 pm

    degradation of morality

    nothing funny about peace, love and understanding my bro
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    Post by John Boy Walton Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:42 pm

    Duff... wrote:
    John Boy Walton wrote:you are so painfully predictable and un fun.

    Well I think we found something we can agree upon.

    you started it
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    Post by John Boy Walton Wed Jan 26, 2022 5:17 pm

    i was shit faced when i wrote all that stuff Duff and I want you to know I have respect for your opinions, know your a smart good-hearted guy, and I wish you all the best.

    fun online ribbing, and i hope you have a great day.
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    Post by Duff... Fri Jan 28, 2022 12:31 am

    I didn't take it too hard, no big deal. We disagree on a lot, whataya gonna do.

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