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    Post by WP64 Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:34 pm

    Those all very good posts. I am not trying to defend Kobe at all, but I don't think people mourning his passing -- especially the tragic circumstances -- should be equated with not caring about the trauma experienced by rape victims. That said, I don't want to say that this is "complicated" and requires nuance. As Zappo said, he raped a nineteen-year-old woman in a hotel room and then used his money and fame to escape justice or punishment. That said, he also went on to use his platform to create space and opportunity for woman both inside and outside the sport of basketball. That doesn't excuse past actions, obviously, although it is notable that he was able to craft a public persona that enabled corporate sponsors to reattach themselves to his image.

    Honestly, I am not trying to make any normative statements about Kobe the person. My point is just that obviously his persona, celebrity, and achievements really did really impact people, many of whom were legitimately grieving this sudden and tragic loss (I don't include myself in this). I just found it pretty annoying and distasteful that so much of the online reaction that I was finding to this event were these kind of flippant and jokey comments. Zappo, your comment wasn't the one that bothered me nearly the most, but this is just a venue where I feel more comfortable expressing my displeasure at things. Perhaps my impulse is wrongheaded. I am very open to that possibility. The next day, I read the entire Daily Beast article detailing the accusations and credible evidence against Kobe Bryant, which were deeply unsettling to me.

    But I guess regardless of how you feel about remembering him, or his legacy, I think the impulse of cracking bad jokes in the immediate aftermath is... not so good. But whatever.
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    Post by zappo Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:04 pm

    So you know, though, I wasn't at all suggesting that people mourning Kobe Bryant were somehow complicit. They are, obviously (and passively/unintentionally, just as I am re: other similarly "problematic" public figures), but there would be better ways and times to address that sort of thing. I was dunking on the rapist and the rapist alone. Probably bad form, sure, but I'm pretty comfortable being in the wrong on this one.
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    Post by zappo Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:15 pm

    undo wrote:Who are the top 5 basketball players of all time? This is regardless of position.

    When I was a kid I was into baseball before any other sports and I very easily developed a sense of who the best baseball players were (by position, actually), even if I'd never seen them play. I'd never seen Babe Ruth play, but I was sure that he was one of the best outfielders. Same with Willie Mays and Hank Aaron. Same with pretty much every other position!

    When it comes to basketball, I'm totally unable to just inherit such knowledge from the past and take it as a fact. No amount of stats or a list of accolades is enough to fully convince me of the greatness of players like Oscar Robertson, Wilt Chamberlain or Jerry West. I'm not saying I don't believe they were great, I just never saw them with my own eyes and I can't 100% believe that their accomplishments weren't due in some part to the eras they played in just not being as competitive as basketball would later become. Maybe this is bullshit, I don't know. I try to watch clips of them on YouTube and it's hard to really evaluate them from that, I mean you're just watching all their best plays and greatest moments, not necessarily a truly honest sample of the players they usually were night in and night out.

    Michael Jordan and LeBron James are the only two players I'm 100% confident putting on a list like that.

    Was Kareem Abdul-Jabbar a top 5 all-time player? He's the all time scoring champ. Yet he's still not regarded as the face of the Lakers (maybe because he played six seasons in Milwaukee). Has it been decided that neither Magic nor Bird, despite holding down the entirety of the 1980s, really were top 5 players?

    Wilt Chamberlain... I've never seen this guy play, he scored a lot of points, that's for sure.

    Is Kobe Bryant a top 5 NBA player? I checked out from watching basketball altogether from about 1999 to 2007 or so (this was part post-Bulls hangover, part circumstances in my life that made routinely watching TV much less convenient than it used to be). I missed out on his prime and much like those players from the 60s and 70s, I'm kind of forming my ideas about his legacy from other people's opinions.

    He's not in the top five, no. Off the top of my head, Jordan, James, Kareem, Durant, and Hakeem were/are significantly better than him. He's 100% a lock for the top 20, 90% for the top 15, and (imo, mind you) not in the top 10. But I'd guess that at least 50% of the real heads would put him there.

    EDIT: "Significantly," of course, being a relative term when talking about athletes of this caliber. I always frame these things in tennis terms. Prime Roger Federer is the greatest tennis player of all time by leaps and bounds...but prime Djokovic is, like, 1% not-as-good. The margins are razor-thin. Not that thin, re: Bryant, but I'm not saying that The Dream's like fifty times the player he was. That's absurd.
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    Post by zappo Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:18 pm

    I think an interesting/impossible question is whether Bryant or O'Neal was the better player.  The latter was much more impactful and literally broke the game, but that had more to do with his size and strength than with his good-not-great "technical skillset."  In that regard, Bryant was a far better player.  And he stayed at that high level for a longer period of time.
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    Post by Ned Braden Wed Jan 29, 2020 8:37 pm

    That is a smart and simple way to articulate a thing I’ve occasionally thought about.
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    Post by undo Fri Jan 31, 2020 4:59 pm

    Assuming that Irving, Oladipo and Wall start next season in full health... it is very difficult to imagine a window for Zach Lavine to ever make the all star team
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    Post by undo Sun Feb 16, 2020 3:54 am

    "Can't forget that Mtn Dew Zone shot!"



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    Post by undo Sun Feb 16, 2020 4:12 am

    Watching this high is an intense experience
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    Post by BGwaves Sat Feb 22, 2020 12:23 pm

    Have you guys heard of Zion Williamson? That kids got promise!
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    Post by undo Sat Feb 22, 2020 2:45 pm

    BGwaves wrote:Have you guys heard of Zion Williamson? That kids got promise!

    Pelicans played the Bulls in preseason and I was there, it was his first preseason game and his true NBA debut. Forget everyone saying that his first game was a week or two ago or whatever, they're all wrong.

    Everyone there but me was cheering for him every time he touched the ball. It was disgusting.
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    Post by undo Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:01 am

    Who would you pick at their prime of being a Player on The Chicago Bulls?

    Kris Dunn or DJ Augustine?
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    Post by undo Tue Mar 03, 2020 1:17 am

    I wanted that Donic shot to go in so badly
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    Post by zappo Wed Mar 11, 2020 10:56 pm

    Damn. NBA got the internet goin' nuts.
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    Post by undo Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:24 pm

    Shocked
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    Post by WP64 Thu Mar 12, 2020 11:33 am

    Was it really Gobert who tested positive after touching all the mics like an asshole? Because if so... holy shit.
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    Post by Nick Thu Mar 12, 2020 12:22 pm

    Yes it was Gobert and now Mitchell has tested positive. Apparently Gobert was touching all the players stuff too last week making a joke of this. What a fucking moron!
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    Post by BGwaves Fri Mar 13, 2020 12:25 am

    I’m watching the all star game right now on TNT.
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    Post by undo Mon Mar 16, 2020 10:40 am

    https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/espn-hinting-early-release-last-dance-documentary-1998-bulls

    Cool
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    Post by zappo Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:13 pm

    undo wrote:https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/espn-hinting-early-release-last-dance-documentary-1998-bulls

    Cool

    One special event that's not ready for TV yet is "The Last Dance," the network's 10-part miniseries about the Chicago Bulls NBA dynasty that is set to air in June. "The reality is that the production of that film has not yet been completed, so we are limited there at the moment," [Burke] Magnus[, the network's executive vice president of programming,] said. "Obviously, you can't air it until it's done."
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    Post by undo Fri Mar 20, 2020 6:31 pm

    Yeah, I read that right after I made the post. Oops!
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    Post by undo Sun Mar 22, 2020 2:41 pm

    this is a basketball thread Resize18

    Hardly the first time I've ever seen this done but why not make the left and right sides of the screen blank/black? Why does filling it up with an enlarged and blurred out version of the video make it look "better" to the eyes of so many people?
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    Post by zappo Sun Mar 22, 2020 3:09 pm

    Like 63 million motherfuckers voted for Donald Trump, B.  Is it that great a leap that they're also too stupid to know how a TV broadcast is supposed to look?
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    Post by BGwaves Mon Mar 23, 2020 10:12 pm

    Watching game 1 of the 1996 Eastern Conference Finals, Bulls vs. Knicks on NBC Sports

    Watching a good Knicks team is surreal
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    Post by Ned Braden Mon Mar 23, 2020 11:11 pm

    BGwaves wrote:Watching game 1 of the 1996 Eastern Conference Finals, Bulls vs. Knicks on NBC Sports

    Watching a good Knicks team is surreal

    Well I support the ever loving fuck outta this and am actually a bit jealous.
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    Post by zappo Tue Mar 31, 2020 12:20 pm

    zappo wrote:
    undo wrote:https://www.nbcsports.com/chicago/bulls/espn-hinting-early-release-last-dance-documentary-1998-bulls

    Cool

    One special event that's not ready for TV yet is "The Last Dance," the network's 10-part miniseries about the Chicago Bulls NBA dynasty that is set to air in June. "The reality is that the production of that film has not yet been completed, so we are limited there at the moment," [Burke] Magnus[, the network's executive vice president of programming,] said. "Obviously, you can't air it until it's done."

    undo wrote:Yeah, I read that right after I made the post. Oops!

    ESPN's 'The Last Dance' Michael Jordan Documentary Expedited for April Airing

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