albums of note that I'm hearing for the first time

Michael K. wrote:

Most recently, I got into country music. Some contemporary stuff - Sturgill, Colter Wall, etc. - but really dug into the music of the late 60s, 70s, and early 80s. Cocaine and Rhinestones was a podcast that helped tremendously with that. Academic in tone, but actually pretty fun in terms of substance. I now spend regular hours listening to Buck Owens, Gary Stewart, Ralph Mooney, and - above all - Tom T. Hall.

Ken Burns' recent thing has me mainlining country again with a brand new vigor. FTR, I'm ok on Burns' war docs, despised the Jazz one, and - like most everybody - loved baseball. Country Music is my fave of the bunch thus far. I'm only through Ep3, but the life and breath I now hear in the music of Hank Williams and Jimmie Rodgers alone is worth the price of admission.

Michael K. wrote:FTR, I'm ok on Burns' war docs

Outrageous!!!

zappo wrote:

Michael K. wrote:FTR, I'm ok on Burns' war docs

Outrageous!!!

Like, I should love them?

I think Zappo despises Ken Burns but I could be mistaken.

I think he works well if you know absolutely nothing about a particular subject and want a cliffs notes explanation. He doesn’t go deep often and when he does it’s tangential or just a bridge to talk about somebody more famous. I still enjoy his docs for what they are but I can understand those who do not.

Michael K. wrote:Then a couple years ago I took the deep dive into the Grateful Dead and they're my absolute A1 most favorite music-making entity of all time now. We can talk more about that if you want to dive down that rabbit hole.

Oooof. We hardly knew ye, Michael K.

Nah, just joshin'. But I'm surprised to hear this development to say the least, given what I understood of your discerning musical tastes to date.

I am broadly in favor of basically anything that can provide worthwhile historical knowledge to a large public but at this point Burns documentaries have been taken to task by so many prominent historians that it makes me uncomfortable. I started the Civil War one once but couldn't get past the first episode (similar to my experience with his jazz series). The main issue that people had with the Civil War documentary is that he distorts the post-war narrative to accommodate the mythologized notion of national reconciliation. Instead, as we all know, the legacy of the Confederacy is actually still very much with the United States into the present day and it something that we need to grapple with constantly.

Been irritating to be confronted by Ken Burns's country music documentary every time I turn on PBS (and come to this forum) this week, not because it's Ken Burns, but because it's about country music.

vIv wrote:

Michael K. wrote:Then a couple years ago I took the deep dive into the Grateful Dead and they're my absolute A1 most favorite music-making entity of all time now. We can talk more about that if you want to dive down that rabbit hole.

Oooof.  We hardly knew ye, Michael K.  

Nah, just joshin'.  But I'm surprised to hear this development to say the least, given what I understood of your discerning musical tastes to date.

I can trace a throughline for myself that zigs and zags through psych and free jazz to arrive at "Dark Star," but I kinda get what you mean. As far as the music goes, it's really just Jerry for me. I mean, the other guys are good - esp Bill K - but they mostly make up the perfect foundation to allow Jerry Garcia to build on with his guitar. The only other dude I've heard that plays his instrument like that - endless joyful improvisation stretching extended toward the sublime - is John Coltrane. When it's good, it's heaven, so I keep searching for when it's good. Pretty much stuck in 1969-1975. I don't know - the more I understand the Grateful Dead the more I realize they mean something different and very personal to most everyone who loves them. There's a deep nostalgic bit for me - I was surrounded by a lot of dead iconography growing up, but it was mainly a vestige of my parents' previous life, buried in closets and not spoken about much in our conservative christian household. I knew my dad grew up on the peninsula, being 18 in 1967, but I didn't really understand what that meant. I knew he lived in the Haight around that time too, but I didn't really gather what that meant either. I watched Long Strange Trip and it opened up an understanding of my dad that I've never had. (I think everyone here knows this, but my dad died when I was 14.) That moved me to check out the music and fortunately - or unfortunately, VD - I worked with a guy who knows the Dead and could kinda guide me a little. I found stuff I loved - I really think most everyone could find something to enjoy in their music - and was able to separate my experience of them from my early notions of what they were. I listen to the live stuff - don't know the albums at all - and go through moments where they're all I listen to and others, like currently, where I don't listen to them much at all. But yeah, with two kids under 5, I don't listen to much Neurosis these days.

Michael K that is an exceptional post.

Michael K. wrote:

vIv wrote:

Michael K. wrote:Then a couple years ago I took the deep dive into the Grateful Dead and they're my absolute A1 most favorite music-making entity of all time now. We can talk more about that if you want to dive down that rabbit hole.

Oooof.  We hardly knew ye, Michael K.  

Nah, just joshin'.  But I'm surprised to hear this development to say the least, given what I understood of your discerning musical tastes to date.

I can trace a throughline for myself that zigs and zags through psych and free jazz to arrive at "Dark Star," but I kinda get what you mean. As far as the music goes, it's really just Jerry for me. I mean, the other guys are good - esp Bill K - but they mostly make up the perfect foundation to allow Jerry Garcia to build on with his guitar. The only other dude I've heard that plays his instrument like that - endless joyful improvisation stretching extended toward the sublime - is John Coltrane. When it's good, it's heaven, so I keep searching for when it's good. Pretty much stuck in 1969-1975. I don't know - the more I understand the Grateful Dead the more I realize they mean something different and very personal to most everyone who loves them. There's a deep nostalgic bit for me - I was surrounded by a lot of dead iconography growing up, but it was mainly a vestige of my parents' previous life, buried in closets and not spoken about much in our conservative christian household. I knew my dad grew up on the peninsula, being 18 in 1967, but I didn't really understand what that meant. I knew he lived in the Haight around that time too, but I didn't really gather what that meant either. I watched Long Strange Trip and it opened up an understanding of my dad that I've never had. (I think everyone here knows this, but my dad died when I was 14.) That moved me to check out the music and fortunately - or unfortunately, VD - I worked with a guy who knows the Dead and could kinda guide me a little. I found stuff I loved - I really think most everyone could find something to enjoy in their music - and was able to separate my experience of them from my early notions of what they were. I listen to the live stuff - don't know the albums at all - and go through moments where they're all I listen to and others, like currently, where I don't listen to them much at all. But yeah, with two kids under 5, I don't listen to much Neurosis these days.

Yes, this is definitely a top hole post.  And to be clear, I don't mean to be a dick.  I totally respect you Michael K and your posts and tastes speak for themselves.

Full disclosure:  I had a "Dead phase" myself, and dived somewhat deeply from 87-89, going to 15 shows and collecting live tapes with a sort of rote sense of duty. A lot of my friends had become Heads and I tried to jump on the bandwagon, but their music always left me wondering what everyone else was hearing. The vibe at some of the shows was great.  I mean, I get it- when they were in the pocket live, they flowed and weaved and created amazing spaces.  And they did this throughout their career, not only in the 69-75 period you've mined, but also at times later, especially in the 86-87 window. Jerry was an amazing and intuitive guitar player, with a signature tone and fluid sense of melody and groove. But there is also SOOO much aimless noodle, and corny pseudo cosmic Americana, and so many dreadfully unlistenable and embarrassing Bobby tunes.  And in the end, they were a sloppy and meandering live unit, even if they sometimes coalesced into greatness.

I do love Jerry's solo stuff, especially that first solo album. The studio version of "The Wheel" is an all-time entry in true American pedal steel ethereal cosmic anthems.  And I like his work with Merl Saunders and David Grisman, Old and in the Way, and his bluegrass stuff.

Anyhow, to each their own, but their enduring popularity and cult status still honestly mystifies me. At the first show I went to (Dylan and the Dead at Autzen Stadium in Eugene in 1987), I spent most of the second set listening to a TDK cassette of Slayer's "Reign in Blood" with Venom's "Black Metal" on Side B on a Walkman.  And still feel solid about that decision.

That's two killer posts, now! Keep on truckin', fellas!

vIv wrote:

Michael K. wrote:

vIv wrote:

Michael K. wrote:Then a couple years ago I took the deep dive into the Grateful Dead and they're my absolute A1 most favorite music-making entity of all time now. We can talk more about that if you want to dive down that rabbit hole.

Oooof.  We hardly knew ye, Michael K.  

Nah, just joshin'.  But I'm surprised to hear this development to say the least, given what I understood of your discerning musical tastes to date.

I can trace a throughline for myself that zigs and zags through psych and free jazz to arrive at "Dark Star," but I kinda get what you mean. As far as the music goes, it's really just Jerry for me. I mean, the other guys are good - esp Bill K - but they mostly make up the perfect foundation to allow Jerry Garcia to build on with his guitar. The only other dude I've heard that plays his instrument like that - endless joyful improvisation stretching extended toward the sublime - is John Coltrane. When it's good, it's heaven, so I keep searching for when it's good. Pretty much stuck in 1969-1975. I don't know - the more I understand the Grateful Dead the more I realize they mean something different and very personal to most everyone who loves them. There's a deep nostalgic bit for me - I was surrounded by a lot of dead iconography growing up, but it was mainly a vestige of my parents' previous life, buried in closets and not spoken about much in our conservative christian household. I knew my dad grew up on the peninsula, being 18 in 1967, but I didn't really understand what that meant. I knew he lived in the Haight around that time too, but I didn't really gather what that meant either. I watched Long Strange Trip and it opened up an understanding of my dad that I've never had. (I think everyone here knows this, but my dad died when I was 14.) That moved me to check out the music and fortunately - or unfortunately, VD - I worked with a guy who knows the Dead and could kinda guide me a little. I found stuff I loved - I really think most everyone could find something to enjoy in their music - and was able to separate my experience of them from my early notions of what they were. I listen to the live stuff - don't know the albums at all - and go through moments where they're all I listen to and others, like currently, where I don't listen to them much at all. But yeah, with two kids under 5, I don't listen to much Neurosis these days.

Yes, this is definitely a top hole post.  And to be clear, I don't mean to be a dick.  I totally respect you Michael K and your posts and tastes speak for themselves.

Full disclosure:  I had a "Dead phase" myself, and dived somewhat deeply from 87-89, going to 15 shows and collecting live tapes with a sort of rote sense of duty. A lot of my friends had become Heads and I tried to jump on the bandwagon, but their music always left me wondering what everyone else was hearing. The vibe at some of the shows was great.  I mean, I get it- when they were in the pocket live, they flowed and weaved and created amazing spaces.  And they did this throughout their career, not only in the 69-75 period you've mined, but also at times later, especially in the 86-87 window. Jerry was an amazing and intuitive guitar player, with a signature tone and fluid sense of melody and groove. But there is also SOOO much aimless noodle, and corny pseudo cosmic Americana, and so many dreadfully unlistenable and embarrassing Bobby tunes.  And in the end, they were a sloppy and meandering live unit, even if they sometimes coalesced into greatness.

I do love Jerry's solo stuff, especially that first solo album. The studio version of "The Wheel" is an all-time entry in true American pedal steel ethereal cosmic anthems.  And I like his work with Merl Saunders and David Grisman, Old and in the Way, and his bluegrass stuff.

Anyhow, to each their own, but their enduring popularity and cult status still honestly mystifies me. At the first show I went to (Dylan and the Dead at Autzen Stadium in Eugene in 1987), I spent most of the second set listening to a TDK cassette of Slayer's "Reign in Blood" with Venom's "Black Metal" on Side B on a Walkman.  And still feel solid about that decision.

I didn't take your post as dickish, fwiw. Just thought it deserved a thoughtful response, is all, and it (sorta) prompted one. I think I follow all of that more or less and mostly agree. Sounds like my tolerance for noodling is probably higher than yours, and I find the cosmic Americana thing more endearing than corny and more profound than pseudo. But we're in perfect agreement on Bobby. I think I was also lucky to have zero firsthand experience with the Dead when they were around. (I mean, duh - Jerry died on my 12th birthday.) The scene seems gross to me and the people surrounding the Dead seem stereotypically awful in every way. I've dabbled with the later years and have only found a couple shows from 1979 that even begin to interest me and a few stretches between 89-91 where they seem to regain some magic. 1977 is its own stunning thing, but it's different. Nah, 69-75 - with focus racked hard to 72-74 - is pretty great for me for a lifetime of Grateful Dead listening, I think. They're mostly, imo, indefensible after '78 - and kinda became the caricature of the Grateful Dead that they'll always be known as at that point - but from 1969~1977, they're the greatest American band that has ever existed and probably ever will.



Back on topic:

I listened to Automatic for the People finally and what a load of diarrhea that album is.

A bunch of really great posts in here that were great to read. As someone who is probably more interested in my relationship to music than I am to actual music, at least these days, I find these kinds of conversations to be really stimulating.

zappo wrote:Your context can be anything you want or need it to be.  Different to someone else's/some kind of "ideal" =/= bad or wrong.

But I mostly disagree with this. Sure, everyone is going to have a different way of engaging with music (art). None of it bothers me or anything. But I do think that some people do a better job of really appreciating and understanding a work of art than other people, for various reasons.

I know a lot of people who make listening to music a really central part of their lives and yet they literally can't have a conversation about it. I think this goes back to how people develop taste now. Since the rise of Spotify and these streaming services, people discover music passively. Algorithms give people artists that they are likely to enjoy based on their listening history. The outcome is two-fold: the first is that people have this really vast wealth of knowledge about all sorts of different types and genres of music, but they often lack the language to talk about what they are listening to. And the second problem, which I think is really sad actually, is that it basically destroyed musical counter-cultures. Maybe Spotify and Apple Music didn't destroy those cultures on their own, but they certainly helped.

This is incredible, like the best of Talking Heads and the best of The Minutemen together in one album.

I've "known" about this album for most of my life but never bothered with it because I thought I knew what it was going to be all about and I was sure it was something I could live without. I was terribly wrong!

Duuuuuuude yeah that is one of the best things. I listened to that a couple times recently and god damn does it hold up so perfectly.

yeah yeah yeah yeah yuhyuhyuhyuhyuhyuhyuh YEAH!

Mongoloid, he was a mongoloid, happier than you and me. Mongoloid, he was a mongoloid, determined what he could see.

I like simplicity and as far as that is concerned this is an all time classic lyric.

Also, if you like this one then don’t sleep on Freedom of Choice.

"Space Junk" has, imo, the best guitar tone and overall production of just about any track all time. I think I had the same experiences pre & post listening as you, undo. I've never thought about Devo in terms of Talking Heads and Minutemen. I like that. Maybe subbing TMBG for part of the Minutemen?

texass



kansass

I’m listening to Beauty and the Beat by The Go Go’s and feeling slightly ashamed that I got the idea due to the Sunday classics review in Condé Nast magazine, but dammit if this doesn’t wail ass.

Well if this isn't one of the funniest and saddest bunch of songs I've ever heard than I just don't know anymore

I’ve been listening to the first 4 Kristofferson full lengths non stop and like 2 months ago I’d never heard any of them. It probably goes without saying, but songwriting has never gotten better than this.

I’m listening to Todd Rundgren - A Wizard/A True Star and I can’t believe I’ve never heard this album. I think Soma mentioned something about him in a different thread and this morning it was on my Spotify recommends so I dove in. This is some crazy Olivia Tremor Control style psych! I was expecting saw the light in your eyes and instead got side two of Abbey Road! Where should I go next? Does the rest of the catalog match this or was this a one off? Great stuff.