The Joseph R Biden Jr. Presidency

Ned Braden wrote:Eh, it wasn't that bad.
WP and Chrono were pretty much right that it would be ridiculous for me to actually be excited about that historic headline. But it was and is a historic headline. As is Harris the politician.
But to use the headline as an excuse to call her the most unpopular, terrible, whatever...  when she...  isn't? That seems like misogyny. And bitterly taking swipes at women when the option of not doing so is right there in front of you would be a good step for a leftist movement that's had its problems with misogyny.

Totally understand you bro. I get that Nick's post was trafficking in narratives associated with misogynist thinking and that can deserve pushback. At the same time, I assumed that wasn't where he was coming from and didn't really think it needed correction. Both are fine perspectives. The urge to embrace the historic moment as pushback to a perceived misogynist narrative is a fine impulse. Everyone is acting fine, I just think this is a thread to get argumentative.

Duff, totally respect that you don't come here to argue against your "own side", but that's kinda all we do in the political threads here. Either way I don't mean to pick on your perspective or anyones.

I'm still going to talk shit on Pete/Kamala for the next 5 years even if I have to vote for them.

I think criticisms that liberals and McKinsey types like Pete are in bed with the enemy are well and good. I see the point that electing liberal moderates helps moderate radically progressive movements slightly. I also think it's still worth it to make incremental liberal progress on issues like climate change, infrastructure, and the supreme court in exchange for that loss of revolutionary enthusiasm which probably wouldn't bubble over either way.

I was definitely angry last week, though it's been rare these days that I haven't been. And I'm particularly sensitive to lefty in-fighting as we watch the right grow more and more comfortable with literal dictatorship. Being indifferent to the 2000 election because Gore was insufficiently to the left and then living through the Bush administration was rather formative for me.

But I don't think you're picking on anyone, and I think our perspectives are very similar, if maybe I have a little more (perhaps too much) hope that humanity can be decent every once in a while. I want a lot, maybe most, of the same things as Nick and WP.

His message is more right than ever: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jan/10/bernie-sanders-democrats-failing-working-class-interview

The pandemic is another reminder that Democrats are offering the absolute bare minimum to working people and they'd rather pander to elites than fight for wealth redistribution. Under Biden things have continued to get worse for working people.

Hell, even your shit Mayor Lightfoot is calling out "the illegal teacher strike" like an absolute stooge. She's been terrible for you guys.

Calling out Sinema and Manchin was awesome. They'll sell out literally anyone to fabricate the image of being a moderate and advocating for a nonsense hodgepodge of policies that don't do anything for anyone. Make them vote and expose themselves.

I don't care how old he is. I'll vote for Bernie again. I hope he primaries Biden.

Honestly, I have been pretty disappointed with Bernie these past couple of years. I think he is an incredible campaigner (mostly because he comes across as an actually genuine guy) but lacks the organizational skills required to transform mass political action into effective counter-institutions capable of mobilizing behind a robust social democratic agenda. He's clearly demonstrated that there is a national electorate for his politics. But where does it go? He's maintained his status as a political independent but he is unable to outline a coherent strategy that is distinct from the DNC. His original strategy, which was to basically subvert the Democratic Party from within through a grassroots effort to effectively democratize the party itself, has failed on multiple occasions now. He founded some other political action org (Our Revolution) that is horribly managed. In retrospect, he could have done a better job harnessing some of that energy into a more enduring (maybe generational) political counter-movement.

Honestly, I've basically lost all interest at this point. I don't hate "the squad" like some of these reactionary, online ultra-leftist dweebs but they also do come across as self-serving celebrity figures with carefully managed public relations teams lately. I don't know. How is it possible that nobody in that country is motivating for an elected Constituent Assembly to transform and re-found the country's democratic institutions? Aren't we meant to be looking at Chile and learning something right now?

chrondog wrote:
Hell, even your shit Mayor Lightfoot is calling out "the illegal teacher strike" like an absolute stooge. She's been terrible for you guys.

Correct. Of course very few of our mayors haven't sucked. We just got rid of Rahm Emmanuel, remember. And for all of Lightfoot's faults (and there are many) we could've gotten stuck with another fucking Daley.

WP64 wrote:Honestly, I have been pretty disappointed with Bernie these past couple of years. I think he is an incredible campaigner (mostly because he comes across as an actually genuine guy) but lacks the organizational skills required to transform mass political action into effective counter-institutions capable of mobilizing behind a robust social democratic agenda. He's clearly demonstrated that there is a national electorate for his politics. But where does it go? He's maintained his status as a political independent but he is unable to outline a coherent strategy that is distinct from the DNC. His original strategy, which was to basically subvert the Democratic Party from within through a grassroots effort to effectively democratize the party itself, has failed on multiple occasions now. He founded some other political action org (Our Revolution) that is horribly managed. In retrospect, he could have done a better job harnessing some of that energy into a more enduring (maybe generational) political counter-movement.

Agree with most of this and a lot of it is why I think he shouldn't've run last time and instead found and supported younger talent.

WP64 wrote:
How is it possible that nobody in that country is motivating for an elected Constituent Assembly to transform and re-found the country's democratic institutions?

Wouldn't say nobody but it's hard to imagine how we end up with something better than we have now. We'd have more or less the same people we have now deciding things.

WP64 wrote:Honestly, I have been pretty disappointed with Bernie these past couple of years. I think he is an incredible campaigner (mostly because he comes across as an actually genuine guy) but lacks the organizational skills required to transform mass political action into effective counter-institutions capable of mobilizing behind a robust social democratic agenda. He's clearly demonstrated that there is a national electorate for his politics. But where does it go? He's maintained his status as a political independent but he is unable to outline a coherent strategy that is distinct from the DNC. His original strategy, which was to basically subvert the Democratic Party from within through a grassroots effort to effectively democratize the party itself, has failed on multiple occasions now. He founded some other political action org (Our Revolution) that is horribly managed. In retrospect, he could have done a better job harnessing some of that energy into a more enduring (maybe generational) political counter-movement.

Honestly, I've basically lost all interest at this point. I don't hate "the squad" like some of these reactionary, online ultra-leftist dweebs but they also do come across as self-serving celebrity figures with carefully managed public relations teams lately. I don't know. How is it possible that nobody in that country is motivating for an elected Constituent Assembly to transform and re-found the country's democratic institutions? Aren't we meant to be looking at Chile and learning something right now?

He's old and all the young people running his campaigns are unseasoned dopes. They've mucked up the messaging time and time again and gotten dragged into personal spats. He has limitations as well, for sure.

I don't know that he "lacks the organizational skills required to transform mass political action into effective counter-institutions" as much as that's a really hard/near-impossible thing that no one has done. So I wouldn't directly criticize his "skills" in that case.

The Democratic Party truly did coalesce against him in a way that I think he found surprising. Bernie doesn't have overwhelming support even among people on the left, so he does need a bit of luck/support from the establishment to "subvert" the party as you say. It didn't happen in South Carolina. The party primary process is not revolutionary at all, which I suppose makes it a challenging place for him to succeed.

At the same time, there's even less appetite for constitutional reform. Our institutions make it impossible. Which suggest circumventing institutions to have a revolutionary constitutional convention which would be ruthlessly squashed.

I'm not super thrilled that Bernie is still the only dude around with a shred of dignity. I don't think that he'll win anything or supporting him is some transformative act. I'm just resigned to what we've got. You won't catch me on #TeamPete.

chrondog wrote:all the young people running his campaigns are unseasoned dopes. They've mucked up the messaging time and time again and gotten dragged into personal spats. He has limitations as well, for sure.

This definitely does seem to be the case. There were some really interesting behind the scene retrospectives of the last campaign. The majority of his primary campaign staff were professional public relations/media guru idiots, which I found to be unsettling. There was one major staffer (can't remember his name) who apparently confronted Sanders after the decision to abandon the campaign and concede the candidacy to Biden. He apparently accused him of taking people's money in bad faith because he had promised people a real fight. Not really sure what came of that. Nor do I think these individual backroom squabbles actually matter.

chrondog wrote:At the same time, there's even less appetite for constitutional reform.

How do you know this? This just seems like a 'common sense' statement that people parrot without actually considering what the public might be willing to entertain. I think you'd probably be really surprised at the number of middle-class American households who clearly recognize that everything about our political system is fundamentally broken and incapable of managing the litany of public health, economic, ecological, and environmental crises facing our society and would be quite open to considering democratic alternatives.

I don't understand how we can live in a world that gave us Donald Trump as President and yet we still lack the imagination to consider radical alternatives. It was literally the most unforeseeable political outcome in the mid-2000s and it was realized only a decade later. Why should we be resigned to the inevitable rise of authoritarianism? And isn't it the responsibility of our elected political leaders (especially in DSA) to be articulating an alternative vision and making it feel possible? Wasn't that what got people so excited about AOC in the first place (remember that GND video she made with Naomi Klein)?

I just really don't get it.

I mean clearly many, perhaps most, people in this country would like a new constitution. Just look at the number of people who want to get rid of the electoral college, or weaken/abolish the 2nd amendment, for instance. But the structural challenges for realizing that are immense, much bigger than even universal healthcare. Making a dunce like Trump president wasn't nothing, but he's never enjoyed even majority support in this country. Rewriting the constitution, particularly in a way that you and I find advantageous, will require much broader support, and it's not like the corporatists and theocrats are gonna just fade away into the background.

WP64 wrote:

chrondog wrote:At the same time, there's even less appetite for constitutional reform.

How do you know this? This just seems like a 'common sense' statement that people parrot without actually considering what the public might be willing to entertain. I think you'd probably be really surprised at the number of middle-class American households who clearly recognize that everything about our political system is fundamentally broken and incapable of managing the litany of public health, economic, ecological, and environmental crises facing our society and would be quite open to considering democratic alternatives.

I don't understand how we can live in a world that gave us Donald Trump as President and yet we still lack the imagination to consider radical alternatives. It was literally the most unforeseeable political outcome in the mid-2000s and it was realized only a decade later. Why should we be resigned to the inevitable rise of authoritarianism? And isn't it the responsibility of our elected political leaders (especially in DSA) to be articulating an alternative vision and making it feel possible? Wasn't that what got people so excited about AOC in the first place (remember that GND video she made with Naomi Klein)?

I just really don't get it.

Because popular will doesn't translate into anything. Our institutions are so archaic and conservative that they dilute popular will into nothingness. We have an elite-controlled society that doesn't much care for popular will. If the public get out of line, they throw them a few bones and a new Marvel movie.

People may have radical ideas, but there is no coherence or consensus. A bunch of people with poor education and low economic station independently coming up with batshit radical ideas is not a movement, especially not a progressive one.

Donald Trump may have been a "radical", but he didn't change anything constitutionally. And while he wanted to undermine and essentially overthrow our government, "the constitution" has protected him from prosecution through executive privilege, while a more democratic country would at the very least jail him forever.

I absolutely think it's worth it to articulate the modern, progressive vision. I just don't have a lot of faith that American voters in our rigged electoral system can force a progressive agenda against the will of elites when the voting public simply isn't progressive at all. I think it's worth it for the left to commit to decades of changing the way we talk about wealth distribution and poverty to create a true working people's coalition.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10394997/CNN-loses-nearly-90-advertiser-coveted-demographics-overall-total-audience.html

Everybody is catching up.

When you lose 90% of your audience I think you might have a messaging problem. I'm not a FOX News guy, but at least it resembles news. I personally lean both ways on the aisle and I stopped even looking at CNN and MSNBC this past year because it's like some Orwellian shopping network for I don't know who. The decision to completely stop covering news might not have been a good idea for the mainstream media. In fact, I don't think you can even call it mainstream anymore: it's now the Dustbin media.

John Boy Walton wrote:I'm not a FOX News guy, but at least it resembles news.

What a surprising development.

Cable news is and always has been universally trash.

John Boy Walton wrote:I'm not a FOX News guy, but at least it resembles news.

I think it's about time to spring for DirecTV and start watching OAN, my man.

chrondog wrote:People may have radical ideas, but there is no coherence or consensus. A bunch of people with poor education and low economic station independently coming up with batshit radical ideas is not a movement, especially not a progressive one.

But do you think that describes the Sanders phenomenon? Because there were definitely a few moments where his campaigns felt like a coherent mass action. I definitely remember thinking that after winning Nevada. Especially considering the deep organizing work that went into winning that particular caucus. The campaign was able to mobilize a racially diverse working class, especially in Vegas' entertainment/tourism service sector economy, to wipe the floor with every other challenger.

Losing South Carolina was an inevitability. Unfortunately a large section of older Black American voters are irredeemably conservative. Their concept of social justice and political virtue is bound up with the morality of Protestant Churches. Honestly, I just think that shit sucks and socialists should feel more comfortable opposing it. Sanders did much better against young black voters who aren't entirely captured by the politics of the local Reverend, which hopefully suggests a generational divide within the 'Black' vote.

It is easy to assume that all political discourse is only performative rhetoric. But I do think Sanders' message of social solidarity and being "willing to fight for the person next to them" actually resonated with a lot of people. That is the basis for a popular movement that is capable of reanimating our ossifying democratic institutions. And I am just disappointed that all of that energy seems to have dissipated into annoying Twitter spats.

chrondog wrote:I absolutely think it's worth it to articulate the modern, progressive vision. I just don't have a lot of faith that American voters in our rigged electoral system can force a progressive agenda against the will of elites when the voting public simply isn't progressive at all. I think it's worth it for the left to commit to decades of changing the way we talk about wealth distribution and poverty to create a true working people's coalition.

Yeah, I don't either. But I think it is the responsibility of our elected officials to expand our collective vision of the possible. Again, I think that is what AOC was quite brilliant at doing. I think she risks the danger of wanting to be taken "seriously" as a politician and thereby becoming increasingly integrated into the very institutions that her constituents had originally elected her to resist and ultimately transform in our own image. She faces an incredibly difficult task and lacks any obvious blueprint. People are way too hard on her, I think. And I still really like her and think she is amazing. But I have been a little disappointed lately. Maybe that is just due to my own misgivings about our current political moment though.

I dunno, he hasn't brought a name yet and these maniacs are screaming about affirmative action like a buncha race-obsessed haters. Seems like they're the ones own-goaling.

Of course if by "read the room" your saying the room is racist, I guess fair point.

Thank you President Biden for calling for peaceful protests. I recall a summer not so long ago of people marching in the streets for weeks, by the thousands asking for cops not to kill people so you could turn around and say you’re for funding the police.

You inspire me with all your leadership. Thank you for banning Juul and reducing nicotine in cigarettes. This is what we need.

biden says he "doesn't agree" with expanding the court

drop the fuck dead so someone who wants to help can take charge

I still can't believe it. Also, the Supreme Court is going to be further deregulating carbon emissions this week, which people, justifiably, won't even be able to keep track of given the scale and path of our social breakdown at the moment. I'm really glad that I do not live in the United States. That probably sounds really stupid and arrogant but jfc... Good luck guys.

yeah we’re thoroughly fucked

Establishing more interagency task forces is the only way we’re ever gonna win this thing. Evergreen #1 on every administration’s list of core strategic objectives.

I had an American friend over last weekend. He was really trying to get me stoked about the Inflation Reduction Act. I really could not be less engaged right now. It has been really nice as well. Since permanently moving to Europe, I have paradoxically gotten in touch with some very deeply-rooted Midwestern values. I am much more sympathetic to a sort of folksy libertarian political ethos of just wanting to be left the fuck alone. Basically anyone with designs to govern society is an absolute fucking weirdo. As I am getting a bit older, my millenarian socialism is gradually giving way to something that I cannot yet articulate.

Is there a social base of small-scale producers and digital/nomad workers in the advanced industrial economies that would be sympathetic to Jeffersonian democracy?

What’s the matter with your friend? I’d like to believe if I’m in Italy - permanently or visiting - thinking about or talking about Joe Biden would be very far down my list of daily concerns.