itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

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    Ted Falconi
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    itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Ted Falconi on Sat Jan 19, 2013 2:02 pm

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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by chrondog on Sun Jan 20, 2013 6:07 pm

    oof, would not have pegged Kucinich as someone who would go the professional hack route

    though i guess i applaud him if he didn't spend his whole congressional career lining his pocketbooks
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by reuben on Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:42 am

    "Let me thank, I guess, one of Vermont's heroes who is now transplanted, Jon Fishman," Sanders said (via Mashable). "Jon and Phish have made New England proud. They are one of the great bands, have been one of the great bands in this country."
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Ҩ on Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:49 pm

    Amazing.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by undo on Tue Dec 20, 2016 12:55 am

    Trying to explain what "fake news" is to seemingly well-informed, thoughtful, non-Trump voters has turned out to be a thousand times more exasperating than I ever thought.

    I'm not on a crusade to tell everyone about this but damn, there are really confused people with strong opinions about it, and the right-wing mission to overuse the term everywhere so that it completely loses its meaning hasn't even gotten to them yet.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Ҩ on Tue Dec 20, 2016 3:24 pm

    I'm glad this is finally making everyone realize how shitty Samantha Bee's political perspective is, because it's honestly fucking horrendous.

    If she ends up being one of the most powerful voices in our media providing a left-leaning critique of the Trump administration, political process, & media then we are totally fucked and should honestly just give it up now.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by undo on Tue Dec 20, 2016 5:05 pm

    Ҩ wrote:I'm glad this is finally making everyone realize how shitty Samantha Bee's political perspective is, because it's honestly fucking horrendous.
    Specifically, what is this referring to? I haven't watched anything of hers in a couple months.

    In a certain corner of the Internet where I'm spending a lot more time lately (not necessarily long term but who knows), there's a pretty big backlash against her and Jon Oliver and even John Stewart. Which I certainly get, to a degree.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Ҩ on Tue Dec 20, 2016 7:39 pm

    I was discouraged by her approach to the Trump protests post-Election. She argued that it was direct action, street demonstrations like this that 'made Democrats look bad.' That's silly. I also thought her recent critique of Lilla's NYTimes OpEd, The End of Identity Liberalism, was really weak.



    A lot of liberal commentators are setting up this ridiculous false dichotomy. We can either embrace a message of economic populism that would, hypothetically, appeal to white working classes in the Rust Belt, who were Obama supporters in '08 and Trump supporters in '16. Or we can hold strong to our conviction that racism is, uh, bad and that multiculturalism is the way forward.

    The problem is basically that these beliefs aren't opposed to each other. At least, they shouldn't be.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Ҩ on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:06 pm

    I get her basic message, of course. She is absolutely right when she argues that progressives must be vigilant about problems of racial, religious, ethnic oppression. When we don't, as was largely the case in the 1990s, old forms of systemic oppression morph, very insidiously, under our very noses. The most obvious example is Clinton's crime bill and welfare reform, which led to the transformation from LBJ's War on Poverty to Reagan and Clinton's War on Drugs. This has gotten a lot of attention (Alexander's New Jim Crow, Black Lives Matter, 13th on Netflix, Elizabeth Hinton's new book From the War on Poverty to the War on Crime: The Making of Mass Incarceration, etc.)

    Call it neoliberalism or just a problematic bipartisan consensus and a general rightward shift in American politics but this remains a problem with deep historical roots that can't just be swept under the rug because of where we now find ourselves.


    Last edited by Ҩ on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Ҩ on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:11 pm

    The medium of satire news itself is also problematic but I grew up watching Jon Stewart. I really like that HBO makes it possible for John Oliver to explore important issues that don't get enough coverage by other cable news networks. I think Seth Meyers also did a great job this year.

    I know that this means I basically like when white men critique the news but find it irksome when women and people of color (Trevor Noah) do the same damn thing. I honestly just think that's coincidental but I'll let others be the judge of that.

    In general, I just wish these comedians spent less time editorializing and more time soberly informing people about the political process itself. The NC GOP coup is a good example of when these shows are at their best.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Nick on Tue Dec 20, 2016 8:26 pm

    The only people watching satire news are Democrats. Ok, that is probably a sweeping generalization but the right wing - the people that are facing economic hardships- they aren't watching. So who gives a shit about John Oliver or Sam Bee. They work against the Democratic Party.

    Until they come out and actually discuss how bad the situation is and stop trying to tell us how great America is more Trumps will take office. Until the people that switched parties not for cultural reasons but because they were left behind stop getting mocked by this form of media it will only do the opposite of what's intended.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Duff... on Tue Dec 20, 2016 11:55 pm

    I don't know how to win an election, and I don't know how to tell people who want idiotic and destructive things that the things they want are idiotic and destructive without them being miffed about it. What I can tell you is that these people weren't energized by Seth Meyers to vote for an ignorant authoritarian. They voted for Trump because they've been waiting for Trump. I've listened to their mockery for a couple of decades now, their casual racism, sexism, homophobia, their petty grievances about government or media giving a single shit about anything other than them for more than a second. These people got what they wanted, a loudmouth moron who gave them permission to not care about anyone else, while the rest of the republican party fell in line. Meanwhile dems, because they're dems, decided to be conflicted over a moderate establishment candidate who would have given us more or less what we've been getting for the last eight years. I'm sure as fuck not gonna start kissing the asses of these people now that they've gifted the world a Trump presidency.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Ted Falconi on Wed Dec 21, 2016 2:10 am

    Yeah, I'm not going to be so worried if dumb fucks want to have dumb fucks be their president.

    My mother voted for Trump because she thinks the most important problem in the world is that they supposedly don't say Merry Christmas at Target.
    She also wants to retire this year because she wants to get on Social Security.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Ҩ on Wed Dec 21, 2016 6:51 pm

    Ted Falconi wrote:Yeah, I'm not going to be so worried if dumb fucks want to have dumb fucks be their president.
    I actually think you should be very worried.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by chrondog on Fri Dec 23, 2016 3:52 pm

    Why exactly? At a certain point there has to be acceptance that if millions of people want America to be a second class, regressive country then that's what it should be. It's not the responsibility of TV entertainers to not belittle people that don't have any fucking sense. Bill Maher didn't get Obama elected and he didn't get Trump elected. I stopped watching them all that much, but John Oliver and Samantha Bee have great shows.

    It's honestly not even alarming when Hillary made her "deplorables" comment. That's straight talk and she should've stood behind it more convincingly. But you can make those comments and still court more skeptical voters. I'm much more worried by commentators who say, as WP points out, that you have to choose between economic populism and the identity politics multicultural message. You need to hit both of those prongs hard at the same time! The Democrats are the big tent party and the message should reflect that.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Duff... on Fri Dec 23, 2016 8:00 pm

    chrondog wrote:
    It's honestly not even alarming when Hillary made her "deplorables" comment. That's straight talk and she should've stood behind it more convincingly.

    My chest still tightens in rage just thinking about this episode.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by undo on Mon Dec 26, 2016 3:47 pm

    undo wrote: and the right-wing mission to overuse the term everywhere so that it completely loses its meaning hasn't even gotten to them yet.
    Congratulations, we let them hijack another buzzword for their own agenda. We'll do it again next week, too.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/25/us/politics/fake-news-claims-conservatives-mainstream-media-.html?_r=0
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Duff... on Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:02 pm

    I think we really need to stop blaming ourselves for this kind of thing and simply realize that they're "winning" because they have absolutely no more limits to how awful they're willing to be.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Ҩ on Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:12 pm

    Maybe, from now on, when they go low, well, we might consider...
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Duff... on Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:30 pm

    Here's the thing: That would pretty much mean the end of american democracy. We're not fucked simply because Trump is awful and doesn't know what he's doing. We're also fucked because half the electorate gave him a pass on pretty much every single awful thing he's said and done in the run up to the election. Which shouldn't be surprising considering everything this portion of voters have been willing to go along with from the GOP. I mean look at the response from the GOP stealing a supreme court appointment from Obama. That should be universally reviled, but it's not. Look what's happening in North Carolina. We may have crossed a line where one major party in a two party system isn't even pretending to respect democracy and fair play anymore. Yes, the natural response is to follow suit, but then, what do we have left? What's there to even fight for? Would we even be a democracy?

    I think our best bet is what Ted said in the other thread: We simply let reality show these people what a terrible choice they've made and hope the damage is reparable.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Ҩ on Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:37 pm

    I honesty don't care. Liberals want to hold together these crumbling institutions and norms with scotch tape while these bloviating, racist assholes run rampant on the country. Good luck with that.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Duff... on Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:53 pm

    If my words suggested any hopefulness on my part then I apologize.
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by zappo on Mon Dec 26, 2016 7:54 pm

    Ted Falconi wrote:Yeah, I'm not going to be so worried if dumb fucks want to have dumb fucks be their president.

    My mother voted for Trump because she thinks the most important problem in the world is that they supposedly don't say Merry Christmas at Target.  
    She also wants to retire this year because she wants to get on Social Security.  

    Your mother may not believe me, but please tell her that the woman who rang me up at Target, last week, told me, "Merry Christmas!"
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by chrondog on Mon Dec 26, 2016 8:38 pm

    They still say Merry Christmas at In-N-Out burger

    God-fearing burger flippers
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    Re: itt we act disgusted/-appointed at left wing buffoons

    Post by Ҩ on Mon Dec 26, 2016 9:13 pm

    I've been meaning to consolidate my thoughts on all of this for a while in a long post and I have some free time right now so here it goes.

    First, on just a personal level I find myself walking on uncertain terrain because this is basically the first time in my life that I've experienced a real political emotion. Undo's post expressing the sadness and despair of this resonated a great deal with my own internal response to everything going on right now. The main difference, though, is that I didn't experience the re-election of Bush in '04. I was fourteen years old when Obama was elected for the first time and I didn't become politically conscious until three or four years later. Even then, my actual knowledge was sparse and came from a misguided, albeit kind of adorable, conception of morality. Programs like Jon Stewart and social history like Zinn and Terkel formed my political sensibilities.

    Second, I'm deeply conflicted about Obama in general. I'm extremely proud to live in a country where the electoral coalition of '08 and '12 elected a biracial president with progressive policy ambitions. People talk about how Goldwater's campaign laid the groundwork for Reagan's tyrannical reign. That's probably true. The same should be said of Jessie Jackson's inspiring campaign in '88 and the entire idea of the Rainbow Coalition, which laid the groundwork for Obama's campaign two decades later. That being said, I'm also deeply disappointed by how Obama decided to govern and I'm very skeptical of the ability for technocratic, labyrinthine policy proposals like the ACA because it is just incredibly difficult to build populist political messaging around these kinds of programs. I'm also really upset that in the immediate aftermath of his election, while liberals were busy honeymooning, Obama acquiesced to financial interests, GOP intransigence, and the burgeoning tea party by scraping the stimulus plan to help working class Americans who were literally being kicked out of their homes. He had a mandate from the country between 2008-10 to govern as a true progressive and he didn't do it. There are a million excuses for this but none of it holds weight. Banks got bailed out, we got sold out isn't just a jingoistic slogan but an economic reality.

    There are deeper historical connections to explore. The whole financial technology of sub-prime mortgage lending was developed during LBJ's Presidency to help low-income, working class families become homeowners. In other words, it was an instrument of the War on Poverty. The disturbing irony is that the liberal political impulse to avoid the stagnation of real wages that began in the 1970s and continues to this day (because it is resistant to populist rhetoric of 'class warfare'), literally developed the financial infrastructure that blew up in everyone's faces decades later. The final solution, as we know, was a reactive politics that protected banking interests and left working-class families to dry. Rather than deal with wage stagnation and income inequality, neoliberal technocrats were busy trying to solve these social problems by providing cheap access to credit and then effectively blaming working-class families when they bought more than they could afford. In the end, many of these same people end up voting for Trump.

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