Thought Dump : Music Edition

I can’t find it now but I read an article the other day that presented Aphex twin, autechre, and boards of Canada as the lords of our modern electronic music situation. It’s was how the author characterized the 3 that I loved. Aphex was the court jester, having playful fun that maybe isn’t to be taken too seriously, autechre we’re the ‘cold approach’ scientists, ever in search and always to be taken seriously, and boards of Canada were the ‘men out of time’ archivists, reminding us what once was but filtering that through our current lens. I feel that it mirrors what happened in America during the 70s-mid 90s. New York provided the party grooves, with roots in disco, Chicago/Detroit provided soulful nostalgia and futurism, while the west coat was more slicked up, chrome psychedelia, and trance heavy.

Find the article plz I want to read it

Here’s where I found the nugget. Should have known… lol Also, not exactly how I described! Oh well, weed, right?
http://blissout.blogspot.com/2022/02/trentanni-di-selected-ambient-works-85.html

Are STP really good? Or are they just so much easier to appreciate now because there is nothing remotely "popular" at all that sounds anything like them?

It feels like all music is being re-appraised now and 95% of it passes with flying colors and practically none of it is the net cultural negative that it was once appraised as. People love George Michael! Pitchfork gives Third Eye Blind's debut an 8.3. For 25 years, Sade was music for bored rich people but is now the absolute touchstone of cool. Even the most disposable 80s new wave is considered daring and experimental these days. Britney Spears is now a hero. Rather than fading away like New Kids on Block, the music of the Backstreet Boys and N'SYNC is taken much more seriously today than I think anyone would have guessed it would be 20 years ago.

Is it cool to hate Pavement now? I don't feel that way at all but I feel like that's what's in the air. Same goes for Sonic Youth. Cheesy 90s Eurodance is probably taken more seriously at this point: there are catchy hooks and an unexplored cultural history that's assumedly more meaningful than smug-sounding slackers or pretentiously "cool" people of privilege who apparently took themselves so seriously that we need to take them down a peg now. It was taken for granted that something like Slanted and Enchanted symbolized a specific idea of guitar rock in its purest form but that has no cultural currency anymore and feels embarrassingly conservative or something.

Again, I don't feel this way. Imagine me gesturing at the invisible crowd right over there who I swear actually do. I'm alluding to something that's out there and not just in my head, I swear.

Probably some combination of...

Regular old '00s poptimism: A lot of George Michael and Sade was Actually Just Good even when it was considered boring yuppie music.

Pop stars' stories became more compelling over time: Lots of people who didn't like Britney's music when it came out became pretty invested in her conservatorship battle in recent years. People who dismissed George Michael gave him a second look after his death and reassessment of his withdrawal from the charts and public outting in the '90s.

Survivorship bias: The only true condemnation in pop music is being forgotten. There were probably tons of bands like Third Eye Blind that have vanished from the cultural memory; just being remembered at all is going to invite favorable reassessment in some quarters.

Nowhere to go but down: Conversely, indie bands almost by definition enjoyed their highest prestige at the time their albums came out. There's just not much to say about '90s indie bands that couldn't have been said at the time when they released their albums, so it's hard to raise their status in retrospect.

I still like Pavement

Were Talking Heads the first post punk band? Discuss.

They always get lumped in with that ‘77’ scene, which they obviously shared bills with, but they were way different, right? Chops is the first, biggest, and really, only difference. David Byrne is a fantastic guitar player. Maybe not lead, but his rhythm playing is up there with the best.

1978

This song is a showcase for his and the bands excellent rhythm but it’s also a good example of them doing something closer to what you might call post punk. Scream sung lyrics, precise, danceable rhythms, and an overall sense of nervous energy.

Better example:

1979

First things first, the album cover. The steel diamond plate suggesting tough and cold industry. The music is utterly alien. Drum machines, synths, dark atmosphere, and heavy reverb. This actually sounds better then most post punk! Were joy division taking notes?

Next album:

1980

Thoughts?

BGwaves wrote:Were Talking Heads the first post punk band? Discuss.

The first name that jumped into my mind as a contender was Throbbing Gristle. I looked it up, and they're pretty neck-and-neck with Talking Heads. Both founded in 1975, both released debuts in 1977. Post-punk is such a broad term I suppose you can find many contenders because so many genres and scenes sprung out of punk in different ways, and post-punk bands were often early indicators of those directions.

Yeah, I considered Wire after I made this post as well. It was just fun making the post I suppose.

I’ve often thought about how Little Johnny Jewel was the first Pavement song.

This was a good read. Always liked this image and now I know where it comes from.

https://dangerousminds.net/comments/the_intriguing_origins_of_cliff_the_cartoon_character

While digging through the depths of my hard drives a couple weeks ago--the same day I found these--I found this gif.



Of course I couldn't find it now that I went looking for it but it was still online.

BGwaves wrote:Yeah, I considered Wire after I made this post as well. It was just fun making the post I suppose.

At what point does "punk" become "post punk"? Are Talking Heads more "art rock" than "post punk"? None of it matters, but it's fun to discuss.

I always think of Gang of Four as "the first big post punk band", but Television came first and has elements of both punk and post punk.

Before they were Television the members were called Neon Boys. It wasn't released as a 7" until 1980, but they were only active from 1972 to 1973 and sounded like this:


This could be called punk but the angular sound, Lou Reed-inspired vocals, and guitar soloing is more characteristic of post punk to me. There's certainly music that came out from 72-75 that would now likely be labeled "post punk" even though the idea didn't exist contemporaneously.

The next question, of course, is when did "post punk" become the "New Wave"?

I am not the smartest person, you guys know that, but imagine the “oooooooooooooh” moment I had when I realized that he wasn’t saying:

I am the Sun
And the Air
With a shyness that is criminally vulgar
I am Sun and Air.

But instead saying:

I am the Son
And the Heir
Of a shyness that is criminally vulgar
I am Son and Heir

Look, I’m not British.

Is Christopher Cross the first shoegaze artist

BGwaves wrote:I am not the smartest person, you guys know that, but imagine the “oooooooooooooh” moment I had when I realized that he wasn’t saying:

I am the Sun
And the Air
With a shyness that is criminally vulgar
I am Sun and Air.

But instead saying:

I am the Son
And the Heir
Of a shyness that is criminally vulgar
I am Son and Heir

Look, I’m not British.

I think the fun part is that it's both

At least you're just confused about words that are homonyms and not just getting the lyrics completely wrong for half of your life like I have been.

and summoner
of nothing in particular

I really want My Bloody Valentine to cover this song.



This will never happen and I bet that if I offered Kevin Shields a million dollars he'd probably still turn it down. I'll never forget the way he was yelling at some sound tech offstage during the show I saw of them *checks calendar* 15 YEARS AGO so now I just assume he's surly all the time and that's how he'd react to such a proposition as he'd probably hate the idea of playing a song like this BUT if he could only imagine it the way I'm hearing it in my head then he'd have to understand that it's meant to be!

I've always imagined that if I was an eccentric billionaire I could make this stuff happen, heck it could be "for a good cause" too. But any idea that begins with "if I had a billion dollars" is the the kind of magical thinking that people need to shake and it's probably damaging to even privately indulge in it.

I'm also sure that this would be an amazing song if it was played by Los Lobos:

Until I decide to pony up and make an oral history of N3gro League thread, this is probably the best place to dump the fact that L3ague friend and confidant, and inspiration for this song, just won a Grammy for producing “Freedom”

https://n3groleague.bandcamp.com/track/willson-brothers-featuring-harrard-the-f-f-f

I really dig the original song, but I've found myself coming back to instrumental a few times over the past few years:


When I hear anyone say "SAD!" I immediately think of Trump and then this song. The thought of Trump and X bonding over their mutual disgust at sad motherfuckers makes me smile.

No one actually likes "Imagine", we're all just expected to, right?

I have never heard a John Lennon solo album. Years of reading this board made me assume the worst about them. Seems like they don't matter anymore? The 21st century has reduced him from the #1 dude of a generation to like the 3rd or 4th most important Beatle.

undo wrote:I have never heard a John Lennon solo album. Years of reading this board made me assume the worst about them. Seems like they don't matter anymore? The 21st century has reduced him from the #1 dude of a generation to like the 3rd or 4th most important Beatle.

I think Plastic Ono Band is a solid album and the only solo Lennon I would suggest to listen to in its entirety. The bulk of his solo stuff is super boring and sometimes painful to listen to. Dude just stopped giving a fuck I think and maybe saw what level McCartney was operating at without him and probably felt it was no use even trying to get to that height.

I think George’s solo stuff sucks too though. Ringo had some fun singles and never took himself too serious. He became my favorite Beatle this year after watching Get Back.

He’s showing up to the sessions for breakfast, takes a few naps, plays drums for a bit and gives Paul some suggestions that I can’t tell if Paul values.

I second the Plastic Ono Band album being good. Also, the Live/Peace Toronto live album is pretty great. The first half is drunk John rolling through some covers with a decent backing band. The second half is a two track noise freak out that rivals the Velvet underground for ugliness.

Nick wrote:

undo wrote:I have never heard a John Lennon solo album. Years of reading this board made me assume the worst about them. Seems like they don't matter anymore? The 21st century has reduced him from the #1 dude of a generation to like the 3rd or 4th most important Beatle.

I think Plastic Ono Band is a solid album and the only solo Lennon I would suggest to listen to in its entirety. The bulk of his solo stuff is super boring and sometimes painful to listen to. Dude just stopped giving a fuck I think and maybe saw what level McCartney was operating at without him and probably felt it was no use even trying to get to that height.

I think George’s solo stuff sucks too though. Ringo had some fun singles and never took himself too serious. He became my favorite Beatle this year after watching Get Back.

He’s showing up to the sessions for breakfast, takes a few naps, plays drums for a bit and gives Paul some suggestions that I can’t tell if Paul values.

Agree with every word of this but think it’s important to acknowledge The Traveling Wilburys were the best shit ever.